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  • Innovation & Best products for intruders open places

    We are looking for best products or innovative technologies in the field of alarms and sensors of intruders for open places like fields, farms, great surfaces, and country properties. Somebody can suggest leading or breakthroughs innovations in this field?. The objective is to look for a superior product to introduce it in Spain. Thank you very much.

  • #2
    There are many solutions to what you are asking.

    1. CCTV with motion detection.
    2. Microwave perimeter sensors.
    3. Infra-red detectors.
    4. Fence vibration detection.
    5. Ground vibration sensors.
    6. Ground radar.
    7. Any combination of above tied into analytical software.

    If you P.M. me I can give you information on many products. The technologies you are seeking I integrate for customers frequently.

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    • #3
      There are lots of technical solutions for detecting intruders in open spaces outdoors. Rooney did a good job of summarizing some of the most popular ones. However, the challenge with most of these systems is trying to justify them from a cost standpoint. Protecting an outdoor area of any size can be very expensive, especially when you have to trench and run conduit for long distances or get power to remote portions of the property. The cost of installing an outdoor protection system can get into the hundreds of thousand of dollars fairly quickly.

      I have been brought in a number of times by clients who are experiencing thefts in outdoor storage areas. One example is a trucking company, who was losing about $25,000 per year in truck batteries and other accessories. We looked at several types of outdoor detection systems, but due to the size of the area being protected, the total cost of most solutions was in the $300,000 to $400,000 range. There is no way that that type of investment could be justified given the current level of losses, so we just recommended some simple improvements in fencing and lighting.

      There is also the issue of response - who is going to respond when the outdoor protection system is activated? Even the best outdoor system will have a certain number of false alarms, so dispatching the local police on unverified alarms is usually not an option. These types of systems work best when you have video verification and/or a private security force that can respond, but many clients who want these types of systems (such as my trucking company client) don't.

      When you factor in all the costs, you often find that there are only a handful of outdoor applications where the investment can be justified.
      Michael A. Silva
      Silva Consultants

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      • #4
        I guess I am going to have to state the obvious. If it is a smaller property than a cheap security company and one officer for 8 hours a night may cover it depending on the situation there. That will still run (in my area) about $50,000 a year U.S.

        Do you have any particular application in mind you can fill us in on or is this something you are just looking to market in your area? More information will certainly make it easier to provide possible resources.

        Comment


        • #5
          You got the point

          Yes, as Silva and Swifty points, the key is the cost/results relationship. Our clients have small countryside properties. Burglars may cost 7000 - 15.000 U$D per incursion. How about a human sensor I have just discovered a sensor Optex (see the link http://alarmshoppe.com/p957.htm), plus a light and may be some voice recorded. We may get some fake warnings, but without bothering police. Lets say that a second detection in the one minute time lapse, makes a call to owner cell phone, and connects an exterior IP Camera to the cell?. What do you think?
          REGARDS AND THANKS!!!
          Francisco
          http://alarmshoppe.com/p957.htm

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          • #6
            The reason I was asking about deer and animals is that I would suggest an alarm system using outdoor photoelectric beams.

            You could use something like this, with the solar power, and wireless alarm transmitter.
            http://www.takexeurope.com/docs/pdf/...PB_IN_75sw.pdf
            http://www.takexeurope.com/
            They also have external passive sensors similar to what you mentioned.

            Optex also has very good photoelectric beams, and a solar option, but I don't see the solar option on the European website.
            http://www.optexamerica.com/productp...l1=2&l2=&id=37
            http://www.optexeurope.com/Site/temP...g=2&intLevel=1

            Depending on the size of your area to be protected, you could do an alarm system with photo beams at a fairly reasonable cost.
            sigpic
            Rocket Science
            Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


            http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
            One Man's Opinion

            The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by francix1 View Post
              Yes, as Silva and Swifty points, the key is the cost/results relationship. Our clients have small countryside properties.
              I guess I'm a little confused, Francisco. In your initial post, it sounded like you were talking about vast spaces (i.e., large farms/ranches), but here you describe them as "small countryside properties", and the difference is very important in terms of what physical systems would be appropriate. For instance, fencing a small property is one thing, but could be prohibitive costwise for a very large property. The same could be said of almost any other system - the larger the property, the greater the expense. In the case of larger properties, it may not be reasonable to protect the outer perimeter and focus on protecting the buildings, or at least an inner perimeter, instead.

              There's a lot more we don't know, also. Are these properties occupied year-round, for instance, or are they vacation properties? Who would respond to an alarm...and how quickly? Is the objective to delay, to deter, or to aid in the investigation of the crime after the fact? Are there other properties nearby, or are the properties relatively isolated from one another (so an audible alarm would not be heard by neighbors, etc.)?

              To make things more complicated, the layout of the property would have a great impact on what would be appropriate. Some properties have very limited approaches, for instance, and others are accessible from various directions.

              Are the criminals involved in these crimes professionals, or are they opportunists, amateurs or even juveniles? Are they breaking into the houses, or just into the outbuildings? Are they stealing large farm machinery or livestock, or items like tools, etc.? Are they operating at night, or during the day?

              Obviously, the solutions will need to be tailored to fit these and other variables. I think you need to analyze the problem a little more and break it out into a small set of model profiles fitting different classes of properties (e.g., residential estate, vacation home, ranchette, small working farm, large working farm, etc.) for which you can then develop suitable solutions.
              Last edited by SecTrainer; 12-20-2008, 09:40 AM.
              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

              Comment


              • #8
                The problem here is we have 2 threads on this going. In the CCTV section is a related thread, in which he described the scenario better, SecTrainer. http://forums.securityinfowatch.com/...ead.php?t=6836

                Originally posted by francix1 View Post
                Thanks for the reminder about introduction. Already done, and with invitation for you also.
                Tipical client will be a pig farm, it has an isolated building in the middle of a field. Usefull system will alert when someone walks inside the field near the building where some valuable devices are storaged (not inside the builing). Pigs are inside. Reading your post, I can see that will be difficult. Any suggestion? Regards!!!
                Francisco
                Originally posted by francix1 View Post
                Animals are inside building. Usually this buildings have alarm systems (doors and windows). We focus on the perimeter. Like and exterior ring of first defense. When animals are outside, there are people with them. Problem is when animals are INSIDE at nights. Some equipment lays outside. And in any case this would be a first layer of protection, before an intruder gets to the building. THANKS"!
                That's why I think photo beams might be a good solution. That's my 2ยข

                Maybe the mods can combine the threads into one for clarity.
                Last edited by integrator97; 12-20-2008, 12:58 PM.
                sigpic
                Rocket Science
                Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                One Man's Opinion

                The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for the clarification, Integrator. I hadn't seen the other thread.

                  Under these circumstances, photobeams might well work, although I'd probably think about using them to define an inner perimeter somewhat inside the property line rather than trying to defend the entire open space where there's nothing of value to steal. The questions still remain, though, about what sort of notification/alarm the beams should trigger and who would respond.

                  That's my 2 cents and with yours he almost has a nickel!
                  "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                  "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                  "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                  "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You would want the beams outside of area the pigs are in at any time. If there is a fence where the beams could be inside, but not be in an area the pigs are in that would be good. This would be the inner perimeter I think Sec Trainer was alluding to. Otherwise they would need to be outside the fence, which is why I was asking about deer, or cattle, etc.

                    Beams are available that can cover a 650 foot or more (about 200 meters) line of site. Outdoor beams can use multiple actual beams between the 2 towers, so that many beams must be broken to trigger an alarm. This means the rabbit or bird breaking just one beam won't trigger it.

                    You have wireless transmitters report the beam trip to an alarm control panel, which can set off an audible alarm or voice recording, activate lites, and communicate to an alarm monitoring station, or wirelessly to a nearby farm house or office, or cellular to a more distant location. Radio and radio voice link can also be used.

                    We discussed video. While I don't think it's an effective way to trigger an alarm in this situation, it can be used to look at the site remotely, if an alarm is triggered. Maybe from the nearby farmhouse, so you don't have to run out on a cold night for an animal trip. There are many ways to transmit video, especially at a low fram rate or short distance. High frame rate over long distances without high speed internet can get expensive.

                    I think passive motion sensors will give you alot more false alarms than beams would, though it would be much less expensive.
                    sigpic
                    Rocket Science
                    Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                    http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                    One Man's Opinion

                    The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

                    Comment

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