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  • video baluns such as NVT

    Have any integrators or dealers out there used different brands of video baluns? I know NVT is the cream of the crop, the forerunner in the technology. But they are also the most expensive, even for the basic unamplified versions. I've tries several others, with satisfactory results, though mostly shorter runs well under 1000 feet.

    Does anyone else have any experience?
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    Rocket Science
    Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


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    One Man's Opinion

    The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

  • #2
    Originally posted by integrator97
    Have any integrators or dealers out there used different brands of video baluns? I know NVT is the cream of the crop, the forerunner in the technology. But they are also the most expensive, even for the basic unamplified versions. I've tries several others, with satisfactory results, though mostly shorter runs well under 1000 feet.

    Does anyone else have any experience?
    We have used hundreds of different baluns for different distances. NVT makes good ones for short distance. If you need to go for longer distances Nitek makes some that will go to 6500 ft. Although they are powered not passive. If you need one that also will allow coaxitron type ptz control Nitek has the translators for that. Their website is www.nitek.net. There are other companies as well that have baluns but I havent had that much luck so I pretty much stick with them for now. You should be aware though that when using balluns the system is more susceptable to interference from outside sources such as flourescent lights or other electrical signals getting close to the twisted pair. Some baluns will filter some of it but you may want a ground fault protector such as pelco's GIT100. I know the interference from a flourescent light is not a ground fault problem, but I have had great success with them. They clean up the signal pretty good.

    By the way. I have quite a few relatives in the Bentonville Rogers area. It's nice there. Especially all the great fishing holes in that area. Sorry to get off subject.
    Last edited by Rooney; 11-01-2006, 05:04 PM.

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    • #3
      As a system designer I alway specify UTP solutions in analog designs (90%). The NVT, Nitek, Pelco offerings are all very good. I usually lead with the Nitek VB43ATF for a passive device. It has signal, data and power over a single Cat5E or Cat6 cable along with built in surge suppression.

      Good luck with your project,

      John
      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G. Orwell

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      • #4
        I haven't done any power over cat 5 / 6, though I've seen it at shows. Are there distance limitations, cause you're only using 24 or 26 gauge?
        sigpic
        Rocket Science
        Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


        http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
        One Man's Opinion

        The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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        • #5
          If you are using power over ethernet you should use Cat 6 cable- I believe it is the only cable cerified for POE (which is essentially what you are doing - without the actual network!). Regardless of certification, Cat6 has 23 or 24AWG which is better to support power. Remember you are only using 1 pair for video transmission so you can use 2 pair for power if needed.

          We are working on a project where everything will be wired using UTP (2200 plus cameras, fixed and PTZ). We had Nitek test and certify that it would work properly. While we just wanted to ensure that the power was OK to 100 meters or 330', Nitek's test found that there was acceptable voltage drop out to 500 plus feet. This was tested using both fixed AD mini-domes and interior AD 918 PTZ domes.
          "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G. Orwell

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          • #6
            You can check the website for reference of the power distance over CAT5

            http://www.foresight-cctv.com/TTP111VPK.htm

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            • #7
              Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
              Have any integrators or dealers out there used different brands of video baluns? I know NVT is the cream of the crop, the forerunner in the technology. But they are also the most expensive, even for the basic unamplified versions. I've tries several others, with satisfactory results, though mostly shorter runs well under 1000 feet.

              Does anyone else have any experience?
              integrator97, we mainly are using passive video baluns from company called videobaluns.com.. These baluns offer several advantages including built in surge protector and we easily can extend CAT5E cable up to 1,500' without any loss of video quality... and the price is right too... (they also make 16 channel switch)

              In a larger installation bases, we mainly use these baluns and anything further than 1,500', we use active baluns from American Fibertek and sometimes from Nitek... Due to major costs constrains from NVT, we basically dropped them across the board.. No need to pay for something that you can get them substantially cheaper..
              http://www.cctvshowroom.com
              http://www.everythingcctv.com

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              • #8
                Up until now, the use of baluns at our facilities had been limited to one, where the facility itself contracted for the installation of additional cameras and this is the route the vendor chose to go. Apparently judging from this thread, it was a good decision. Other facilities have also contracted camera installations on their own, and I recall seeing more than once spools of analog camera wire (coax & power pair in one) waiting to be pulled. After reading this thread and doing a bit of price checking on my own, it sure dosen't take much to see that UTP & baluns are the way to go (most of our runs are less than 100M). I will probably make a recommendation to our security department to consider using UTP and baluns for new installs. What is also nice about this is that the same UTP cabling can be used if there is ever a desire to go the IP camera route. Besides, pulling and terminating UTP has to be a lot easier than coax. We currently have a couple of buildings using IP cameras (POE w/ cat6), and the installs are certianly a lot cleaner.

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Robocoach View Post
                  Up until now, the use of baluns at our facilities had been limited to one, where the facility itself contracted for the installation of additional cameras and this is the route the vendor chose to go. Apparently judging from this thread, it was a good decision. Other facilities have also contracted camera installations on their own, and I recall seeing more than once spools of analog camera wire (coax & power pair in one) waiting to be pulled. After reading this thread and doing a bit of price checking on my own, it sure dosen't take much to see that UTP & baluns are the way to go (most of our runs are less than 100M). I will probably make a recommendation to our security department to consider using UTP and baluns for new installs. What is also nice about this is that the same UTP cabling can be used if there is ever a desire to go the IP camera route. Besides, pulling and terminating UTP has to be a lot easier than coax. We currently have a couple of buildings using IP cameras (POE w/ cat6), and the installs are certianly a lot cleaner.
                  Robo,

                  Good thinking- I know you mentioned that most of your runs are 100M or less so when you go to IP it will be pretty straightforward.

                  We are currently working on a project where the 1700 new cameras will be entirely over UTP (CAT6). The existing cameras are coax to a closet, then UTP to the DVRs.

                  Good luck,

                  John
                  "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G. Orwell

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                  • #10
                    John,
                    You touch on something that was never instituted in the legacy DVR installs among our buildings. The coax for all of the older installs was pulled to a central location (wherever they decided to install the DVR) but not terminated on a patch panel of any sort (even when installed in the regular data closet). Needless to say this conglmeration of coax, power pairs and wall mounted power supplies is a mess in some facilities. Running Cat5e or Cat6 to a patch panel then to a balun on the back of the DVR that has an RJ45 connector on it would allow the cameras to be wired in a much more structured (and flexible) manner. The DVR installation at a location other than the data closet was because physical access to the device was needed to view recorded data. This is not as necessary now with advanced features on the newer units, further facilitating UTP wiring. This all plays a factor in device location, and having a flexible wiring scheme will probably save money in the long run.
                    Still thinking this all through, but a proposal is being worked on for presentation to the decision-makers...

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                    • #11
                      Robo,

                      Get the IT folks involved if you have to- they will support the consideration even if they don't want IP cameras on their network at this time.

                      During your presentation use buzzwords like future-proofing.

                      John
                      "People sleep peaceably in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf." G. Orwell

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                      • #12
                        John,
                        I am one of the IT folks. I'm the only IT guy doing anything with the security systems. Because of my networking and electrical engineering background, getting into the security part was sort of a natural segue. My involvement at this time is mostly limited to putting the DVR's on the network (something I initiated), but I am consulted for other aspects as well. Because the use of UTP cabling and video baluns is something I want to look closer at, I need to check out the one facility we have that has them in their camera wiring.

                        I looked at the site videobaluns.com, and the prices seemed pretty good, however Nitek looked good too. Once I see what brand was used at the other building, I'll check the device out. It was mentioned to be that the video quality seemed degraded on these cameras, but more investigation will need to be done before blaming the wiring.

                        Thank you, and any balun advice such as brands, price point (read:cheap but good) would be appreciated.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Robocoach View Post
                          I looked at the site videobaluns.com, and the prices seemed pretty good, however Nitek looked good too. Once I see what brand was used at the other building, I'll check the device out. It was mentioned to be that the video quality seemed degraded on these cameras, but more investigation will need to be done before blaming the wiring.

                          Thank you, and any balun advice such as brands, price point (read:cheap but good) would be appreciated.
                          Robo, I am not sure if this forum allows publishing prices, but here is a url that can give you that info... http://reliablecctv.com/advanced_sea...obalun&x=0&y=0

                          We mainly use this model with great results.. Other models are as good too, so you should consider testing them for your own consideration... and then decide. One major advantage that these video baluns come without extra cost is that they contain built in surge protection, which normally costs more with other manufacturers...
                          http://www.cctvshowroom.com
                          http://www.everythingcctv.com

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                          • #14
                            MetzLyov,
                            I was looking at this company earlier, and used the BL3265 in my initial price comparison proposal. What is good is that there is a project coming up in which we may be able to compare coax and UTP side-by-side to dispel any video quality issues one way or another. Of course I'm hoping the UTP wiring will prevail, but I'm also going to be on the lookout for cable routing (away from ballasts, ect) and proper power (multiple twisted pairs at a minimum). We shall see.

                            I visited the one building we have in which the local administrators there contracted their own camera install, and the vendor went with NVT 213A baluns. The video quality does not seem to be as good as it is where we have coax, but I also noticed that the installer used only one of the available twisted pairs for camera power, not two as I have seen recommended, so that could be part of the problem.

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Robocoach View Post
                              MetzLyov,
                              I was looking at this company earlier, and used the BL3265 in my initial price comparison proposal. What is good is that there is a project coming up in which we may be able to compare coax and UTP side-by-side to dispel any video quality issues one way or another. Of course I'm hoping the UTP wiring will prevail, but I'm also going to be on the lookout for cable routing (away from ballasts, ect) and proper power (multiple twisted pairs at a minimum). We shall see.

                              I visited the one building we have in which the local administrators there contracted their own camera install, and the vendor went with NVT 213A baluns. The video quality does not seem to be as good as it is where we have coax, but I also noticed that the installer used only one of the available twisted pairs for camera power, not two as I have seen recommended, so that could be part of the problem.
                              Robo, you will be fine with these baluns from videobaluns.com... We have used them for years and with no problems at all...

                              Another major advantage with these besides what I described that each balun comes with built in surge protector, you can easily stretch the CAT5E cable up to 1,500' without any loss of video quality... and that is compared with NVT's model # NTV 213A that is capped at 750' maximum distance...

                              Here is NTV spec sheet that confirms this information: http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:...lnk&cd=1&gl=us

                              We used them both as well as many others... Nitek, American Fibertek and several others... they all deliver what they can and they generally work fairly well... but when you do a complete comparison and actually use them all, the videobaluns.com baluns work better than anyone of them... and for (3) major reasons:

                              1. Price points and the warranty...
                              2. You can run cables up to 1,500' without any loss of video quality.
                              3. They come with built in surge protectors that will not damage your camera equipment if there are electrical surges or large electromagnetic burst near or around your cables... and prolongs your equipment life expectancy..

                              I recommend trying them and see what you think...

                              Good luck!
                              http://www.cctvshowroom.com
                              http://www.everythingcctv.com

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