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  • #16
    I saw this program as well, what was scary was the stats on just how often foriegn tour boats, small yahts & private cruise ships are boarded & the occupants of such vessels pillaged, kiddnapped or even killed! I think it was like 1 in every 7 in some places!
    The trouble is, once your international waters, your literally a sitting duck.., your on your own, you cant have armed protection & your stuck in a vessel, normally far from shore & that cant outrun the bad guys fast attack boats. Its has all the elements of a swat team (speed, surprise & violence of action) but its in a reversed objective. I for one would never put my family on a private cruise boat not within U.S. waters.
    Yoda
    Sometimes there is "Justice", sometimes there is "Just Us"

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    • #17
      Why exactly can't you have armed protection? The gambling boats that I worked on (we were the only person on board at night, handed off from the night Captain and handed to the Day Captain) were all armed with 4 shotguns (2 870s for defense + 2 1170s for passenger clayshooting), 2 Glocks (with complete Bianchi duty rigs), 1 Uzi (No clue why that was there), and a Bushmaster .223...

      The First Mate was required to perform law enforcement duties once the vessel was outside the 7 mile limit, and was a police academy graduate (but not a police officer.)
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        Why exactly can't you have armed protection? The gambling boats that I worked on (we were the only person on board at night, handed off from the night Captain and handed to the Day Captain) were all armed with 4 shotguns (2 870s for defense + 2 1170s for passenger clayshooting), 2 Glocks (with complete Bianchi duty rigs), 1 Uzi (No clue why that was there), and a Bushmaster .223...

        The First Mate was required to perform law enforcement duties once the vessel was outside the 7 mile limit, and was a police academy graduate (but not a police officer.)
        My question also. Once out of a nations boundries who is to say you can't have firearms on a vessel?

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        • #19
          Originally posted by mh892
          My question also. Once out of a nations boundries who is to say you can't have firearms on a vessel?
          Since most cruise boats are foreign flagged, the rules of that country except when the boat is docked in a specific location then it can be either that country or a joint venture between the two countries.
          It must be clearly understood, most if not all the boats registered are "flagged for convenience." Many of these countries do not have marine interests of their own.
          Congress passed that law because many hands were greased with "green." It is slimy, but that's life.
          Enjoy the day,
          Bill

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          • #20
            Originally posted by mh892
            My question also. Once out of a nations boundries who is to say you can't have firearms on a vessel?
            The program didn't elaborate. It was news to me as well.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #21
              Nothing says you can't posses weapons in territorial waters, but every time you enter territorial waters you must declare those weapons to customs. Generally you are required to surrender those weapons. You pick them up when you leave territorial waters. If you think about it, it is more trouble than it is worth. Most cruises are not open water, they are coastal. Open water cruising is only a means to an end, getting to coastal waters. Ships and boats don't stay at sea. They cross the sea. You reach a coast, you check in, you check your weapons, you sail on, along the coast, to your next destination. You have to return for your weapons before you sail on.
              Booth

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              • #22
                Originally posted by mike booth
                Nothing says you can't posses weapons in territorial waters, but every time you enter territorial waters you must declare those weapons to customs. Generally you are required to surrender those weapons. You pick them up when you leave territorial waters. If you think about it, it is more trouble than it is worth. Most cruises are not open water, they are coastal. Open water cruising is only a means to an end, getting to coastal waters. Ships and boats don't stay at sea. They cross the sea. You reach a coast, you check in, you check your weapons, you sail on, along the coast, to your next destination. You have to return for your weapons before you sail on.
                The other issue regarding weapon possession is that many carriers do not allow it as a matter of company policy. This puts the crew in a tight spot. Basically, they try to retreat to the bridge and lock themselves in hoping that the pirates just want the valuables and not their lives.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  The other issue regarding weapon possession is that many carriers do not allow it as a matter of company policy. This puts the crew in a tight spot. Basically, they try to retreat to the bridge and lock themselves in hoping that the pirates just want the valuables and not their lives.
                  True, and modern cargo carriers use very small crews who are often out numbered in raids.
                  Booth

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by mike booth
                    True, and modern cargo carriers use very small crews who are often out numbered in raids.
                    Mike:
                    That is the reason there is a quiet move afoot to use "Q" ships as bait for these pirates. Let them get a taste of their own medicine.
                    In both World Wars, Q ships did a lot of damage to shipping.
                    Enjoy the day,
                    Bill

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                    • #25
                      Ok, I have to ask: What's a Q ship?
                      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                      • #26
                        Q Ships were armed merchant ships, with hidden deck guns. It could work off Somalia. In the South China Seas and Indian Ocean, pirates tend to have inside information on targeted vessels. They know which containers to hit and right where to go. Which makes sense if you think about it. It wouldn't do you much good to crack open a shipment of snowmobiles and try to wrestle the crates onto rubber rafts then try to dispose of them on the black market in South East Asia. They are targeting liquor, cigarettes, non pershiable food, etc. They are getting tipped off. They aren't going to fall for Q ships. The Somali on the other hand are hitting anything in the water and taking whole ships when possible. But it may be cheaper to buy off the local warlord. That seems to be working.
                        Booth

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                        • #27
                          Thanks.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by The Lord of the Keys
                            I like the old fashion way. Sink their ship and hang the pirates
                            Avast ye scurvey swabs. Prepare to be boarded! Aaarrrggh!
                            sigpic
                            Rocket Science
                            Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                            http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                            One Man's Opinion

                            The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by mike booth View Post
                              Q Ships were armed merchant ships, with hidden deck guns. It could work off Somalia. In the South China Seas and Indian Ocean, pirates tend to have inside information on targeted vessels. They know which containers to hit and right where to go. Which makes sense if you think about it. It wouldn't do you much good to crack open a shipment of snowmobiles and try to wrestle the crates onto rubber rafts then try to dispose of them on the black market in South East Asia. They are targeting liquor, cigarettes, non pershiable food, etc. They are getting tipped off. They aren't going to fall for Q ships. The Somali on the other hand are hitting anything in the water and taking whole ships when possible. But it may be cheaper to buy off the local warlord. That seems to be working.
                              You're right on them having inside information. This applies when they want the cargo, and ship. They quickly paint over the ships name and head for China or other ports that look the other way, and sell the cargo. Sometimes they abandon the ship, sometimes sell it, and sometimes they steal more cargo, by going to ports and finding someone that needs to ship in a hurry. they use fake documents, take on the cargo, and off they go, never to be heard from again.

                              Other times, they are just after the cash and valuables. Most ships pay in cash, and carry a large amount for port duties, etc. I recently read "Dangerous Waters: Modern Piracy and Terror on the High Seas" by John S. Burnett. Very enlightening book.
                              sigpic
                              Rocket Science
                              Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                              http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                              One Man's Opinion

                              The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
                                Avast ye scurvey swabs. Prepare to be boarded! Aaarrrggh!
                                Aye, mate! Shiver me timbers.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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