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  • Securing a pool area

    This sounds like a basic question, but I can't seem to find an answer..

    There is a pool / spa area with a fence built all around it. The fence has 4 gates, all the gates have two locks, one on the bottom that the residents can use their clubhouse key to open and a top lock for security to lock at night time. If the top lock is locked, residents cannot enter through the gate even with their key. The fence is about 7 feet tall.

    The issue we are having is at night, after we lock the top locks people are just climbing over the fence to get into the pool area, and then claiming ignorance of the pool hours.

    How do you go about securing this in a better fashion?
    Perfection is a bunch of small things done right.

  • #2
    I have seen intrusion alarm systems used to protect pool and recreational areas such as the one you describe. Some type of outdoor motion detector (such as a photobeam or dual-technology detector) is typically used. When the pool is closed for the day, the alarm system is activated. People climbing into the area after-hours would set-off the alarm, causing a security and/or staff response.

    You could also use video surveillance and/or remote video monitoring in an application like this, but I would start with a basic intrusion alarm system first.
    Michael A. Silva
    Silva Consultants

    Comment


    • #3
      At my downtwon hotel you need your room key to get into the pool area where the pool & whirlpool are located on the lower level. The saunas, massages rooms & gym are located on the upper level. There is a 4' fence at the top of the stairs to go down to the pool level. At 23h00 we use the lockout key to stop the electronic locks from accepting all bu the emergency key which we carry. The Lifeguard leaves at 21h00 (18h00 on Sundays) & comes back at 07h00. The gym stays open until 23h00 & opens at 05h00.

      We use very low technology to catch the "after hours swimmers". PATROLS & video surveillance while working in the office.

      I've been asking management to increase the height of the 4' fence but after reading your post think it might be a waste of money.

      I'm surprised how stupid some guest are. I have seen parents life their klids over the fence. Quebec law requires a Lifeguard to be on duty. Within the past 5 years we have had 2 drownings with Lifeguards on duty.

      When I catch them I scare the heck out of them to make them think twice about doing it again. I tell a little white lie. I say that we add chemicals to the water after hours & that they better quckly go take a shower. So far it has worked.
      Last edited by HotelSecurity; 01-10-2011, 08:39 PM.
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

      Comment


      • #4
        Pool trespassers

        @ HotelSecurity - yes, the "we add chemicals at night" line does work - especially with the women. Once I tell them they should wash their suits in Woolite to prevent possible fading, they're out quick.

        As far as climbing over, we have the same problem. We try to catch them when we can, but we can't be everywhere at once. Higher fencing isn't practical for us. I like the idea of motion alarms, but our co. probably wouldn't pay for it...

        Comment


        • #5
          Piranhas?

          We relied on cameras at my former condo post. We then "permanently" installed signs with the hours on all gates to the pool and sent a memo to all residents. "Ignorance" was no longer an excuse and violation of pool hours resulted in a fine. Too many fines and the residents were apparently asked to leave by management.
          A wise son hears his father's instruction,but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke. Proverbs 13:1

          "My “Black-Ops” history ensures that you will never know about the missions I accepted in my younger days, and Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later. " G-45

          Comment


          • #6
            Im going to ask about some motion detectors. Its not the issue of us not catching them, the main issue is people are hoping the fence then claiming they thought the gate was broken because their key didnt work.

            Side note: Is it wrong to make them climb back over the fence once I kick them out? Ive always unlocked the gate for them when i kick them out, but maybe if they had to hop back over they wouldn't do it again?
            Perfection is a bunch of small things done right.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Zanev View Post
              Side note: Is it wrong to make them climb back over the fence once I kick them out? Ive always unlocked the gate for them when i kick them out, but maybe if they had to hop back over they wouldn't do it again?
              That would work...until someone fell off on their way out and sued. I wouldn't advise it.
              A wise son hears his father's instruction,but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke. Proverbs 13:1

              "My “Black-Ops” history ensures that you will never know about the missions I accepted in my younger days, and Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later. " G-45

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by CTEXSEC1 View Post
                That would work...until someone fell off on their way out and sued. I wouldn't advise it.

                I haven't had to deal with pools since 1999, but if a sign is posted at each entrance with the hours, they really can't say they didn't know what the hours are.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
                  I haven't had to deal with pools since 1999, but if a sign is posted at each entrance with the hours, they really can't say they didn't know what the hours are.
                  We have signs & the gate is padlocked. They can't say that they thought their key wasn't working. And people still jump the gate.
                  I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                  Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by HotelSecurity View Post
                    We have signs & the gate is padlocked. They can't say that they thought their key wasn't working. And people still jump the gate.

                    Originally posted by Zanev View Post
                    The issue we are having is at night, after we lock the top locks people are just climbing over the fence to get into the pool area, and then claiming ignorance of the pool hours.

                    Hence my idea of completely posting the entrances. If they still jump the fence, that is a separate issue. Personally, I would not care if they got hurt after that.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
                      Hence my idea of completely posting the entrances. If they still jump the fence, that is a separate issue. Personally, I would not care if they got hurt after that.
                      Although, if that was the case and they still jumped the fence their may be a case for reduced liability (notice I wrote reduced) I think the property owner would care if they got hurt.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Silva Consultants View Post
                        I have seen intrusion alarm systems used to protect pool and recreational areas such as the one you describe. Some type of outdoor motion detector (such as a photobeam or dual-technology detector) is typically used. When the pool is closed for the day, the alarm system is activated. People climbing into the area after-hours would set-off the alarm, causing a security and/or staff response.

                        You could also use video surveillance and/or remote video monitoring in an application like this, but I would start with a basic intrusion alarm system first.
                        Mr. Silva has given some sound advice. You can have fences, key locks and signs and someone is liable to climb the fence to get into the pool. The property owner's liability does not end there. It's a given that people will ignore signs, locks and fences. Having a notification system to alert staff that someone has violated the security protocols along with a response to the alarm is one of the best defenses to litigation when the you know what hit the fan.
                        Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                        Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                        Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
                          I haven't had to deal with pools since 1999, but if a sign is posted at each entrance with the hours, they really can't say they didn't know what the hours are.
                          Yea...that would be pretty much what I said...

                          Originally posted by JoeMama View Post
                          Hence my idea of completely posting the entrances. If they still jump the fence, that is a separate issue. Personally, I would not care if they got hurt after that.
                          You caring if they got hurt or not is 110% immaterial. The fact is, they can, and probably will, sue if they get hurt because you say "hey, you jumped the fence to get in so jump it to get out."
                          A wise son hears his father's instruction,but a scoffer does not listen to rebuke. Proverbs 13:1

                          "My “Black-Ops” history ensures that you will never know about the missions I accepted in my younger days, and Vietnam still shudders when it hears the name of a an assasin so skillful and deadly, he is remembered decades later. " G-45

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Cameraman hasn't posted yet?

                            OK, I'll post for him, "What happened to laser beams and machineguns?"
                            I tried being reasonable, I didn't like it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by CTEXSEC1 View Post

                              You caring if they got hurt or not is 110% immaterial. The fact is, they can, and probably will, sue if they get hurt because you say "hey, you jumped the fence to get in so jump it to get out."


                              In a four year period of time, I had probably five times where I found someone who had jumped a locked gate to enter a pool area. Every time, I opened the gate so they could leave (also so I could get in ). I would have to be a complete retard to make someone jump back over a fence.


                              Also, I said I personally did not care if someone got hurt while illegally entering a secured area, and that is true. That does not mean I did not do my job properly, just that I have a low tolerance for stupid people.

                              Comment

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