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  • #46
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    My state doesn't have such a structured flashing light permit for private vehicles. I think they just assume the like of security vehicles and utility vehicles will just use yellow since that is most common. We have had some flap about security companies using white and blue lights. Some say it is legally permissible on private property because of a vague clause in the tr.c. about non-applicability of certain statutes on private property. I avoid the whole issue and don't use them at all.
    I know back when I was a volunteer firefighter I had some questions in Virginia about the blue lights in my vehicle ( most southern states use all blue for police). After a quick explanation had a pleasant talk about lights, pay, working conditions and the job in general. Worst was when I was traveling across New York for a transport from Pennsylvania and a NY Trooper told me I had to cover my light bar while in state- in a marked police car no less. Any one else have a similair experience?
    Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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    • #47
      Originally posted by Taser
      What? Any lightbar can be used to pull someone over. Whether it's on a dash, behind a grill, on the sideview mirrors, on the roof, wherever. Idiot security guards are going to do idiot things no matter where their lights are located.

      Show me lights you can't pull someone over with. Stupid people will do stupid things, regardless of the lights on their car.

      I too didn't exactly understand what everyone's beef was with this item. Different security companies located in different jurisdictions have different needs and different laws that apply to them. Let the owner of the company decide what is best for his patrol cars.
      In CT you're lucky if they pull over for full red/blues, mirror strobes and grill lights with the siren going full blast- its thier road as far as the public is concerned. Also here you can buy any type/color light you want, just dont put it in your vehicle unless you have the paperwork.
      Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

      Comment


      • #48
        Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
        I find it stupid that one could be arrested for impersonation based solely on preception. When I walk around at work, I don't care how many times I have "Boeing Security" on my uniform no one thinks were security. In fact if you walk around Boeing and tell them to call security the usual response is "we have security?" Nope, everyone thinks we are the cops and they often refer to us as the Boeing Police Dept. We have done nothing to encourage this but it is the peoples perception based on our uniforms and job. Now, if one could be arrested for impersonation based on perception you would have 240 security officers sitting in jail right now. That doesn't include other companies either. I guess I am lucky that I live in WA where to be charged with a crime you have to show Intent, not just perception. Lights, Sirens, Cars, etc. don't make the police officer. I am a big advocate of running lights and sirens in crown vics for security companies. They can be useful tools in doing the job at hand which is to prevent crime and protect the client. If an idiot abuses them then punish him severely. That is the problem, the punishment never fits the crime. I have talked to several police officers who could care less if security had red/blue lights. But, because impersonating is not a very serious crime anyways they know certain idiots would abuse it and not be punished for it. Make the punishment fit the crime and the problem would go away.

        One flaw with security running the same lights as the PD is the possibility a citizen may flad down a vehicle thinking its a cop for a crime in progress and guess what- its not. Citizen sues, police are unhappy and newspapers have a field day with " fake police" endangering the public. Its happened here and we have the laws to show for it regarding light colors. Impersonation is a serious crime, we had a string of women pulled over by impersonators, impersonators trolling near schools and even rolling up on people. Someone is going to wind up seriously hurt. We even had a state university president pulling over speeders with his badge and a light he purchased for himself. In my opinion lights need stringent controls.
        Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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        • #49
          Originally posted by ycaso77
          Impersonation is a serious crime, we had a string of women pulled over by impersonators, impersonators trolling near schools and even rolling up on people. Someone is going to wind up seriously hurt. We even had a state university president pulling over speeders with his badge and a light he purchased for himself. In my opinion lights need stringent controls.
          Back in the mid 70's when I worked for Pinkerton they were removing the yellow flashers off of the patrol cars & we had cloth "shields" on our breasts & hats. I was told it was because of an incident like above. A patrolman was pulling over women.
          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by ycaso77
            ...a citizen may flag down a vehicle thinking its a cop for a crime in progress and guess what- its not...
            This is precisely why most of our cars don't have flashing lights anymore and for the ones that do, I don't turn them on. I also never roll down the window for people when out on the road between properties. They need to call 911, not expect me to replace the cops.
            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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            • #51
              Originally posted by 1stWatch
              This is precisely why most of our cars don't have flashing lights anymore and for the ones that do, I don't turn them on. I also never roll down the window for people when out on the road between properties. They need to call 911, not expect me to replace the cops.
              I was once flagged down while driving my POV and wearing T-shirt and sweat pants. The five-year-old girl some how recognized me. She stopped me because she wondered from home while her mom was sleeping (passed out drunk). I had been at their house before.
              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
              -Lieutenant Commander Data
              sigpic

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              • #52
                Originally posted by Tennsix
                I was once flagged down while driving my POV and wearing T-shirt and sweat pants. The five-year-old girl some how recognized me. She stopped me because she wondered from home while her mom was sleeping (passed out drunk). I had been at their house before.
                I'd stay away from undercover work if I were you.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  I'd stay away from undercover work if I were you.
                  Hmm....
                  I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                  -Lieutenant Commander Data
                  sigpic

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by Tennsix
                    I was once flagged down while driving my POV and wearing T-shirt and sweat pants. The five-year-old girl some how recognized me.
                    Isnt that your usual duty uniform anyway?
                    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                    "The Curve" 1998

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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                      Isnt that your usual duty uniform anyway?
                      yeah... complete with my Jeff Gordan cap. My dress uniform is a Nike running suit.
                      I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                      -Lieutenant Commander Data
                      sigpic

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                      • #56
                        Hiring?
                        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                        "The Curve" 1998

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          Originally posted by ycaso77
                          One flaw with security running the same lights as the PD is the possibility a citizen may flad down a vehicle thinking its a cop for a crime in progress and guess what- its not. Citizen sues, police are unhappy and newspapers have a field day with " fake police" endangering the public. Its happened here and we have the laws to show for it regarding light colors. Impersonation is a serious crime, we had a string of women pulled over by impersonators, impersonators trolling near schools and even rolling up on people. Someone is going to wind up seriously hurt. We even had a state university president pulling over speeders with his badge and a light he purchased for himself. In my opinion lights need stringent controls.
                          I'm going to disagree with your statement but please don't take it personally as states have different laws and what not. Getting sued because someone "thought" you were a cop is ludacris. I think here in WA a judge would throw the case right out of court. A cop is sworn to protect and serve. However, it is common sense to call 911 and report the crime. Flagging police down is never a good idea because even in a real cop car there may not be a real cop driving it. I know the pds around here love to have citizen patrols and senior patrols as well as explorers and cadets and they all drive regular police cars. Impersonation is a serious crime but it doesn't have to be if you educate your citizens. I personally could care less what color lights i have. When I worked for my 1st security company i drove a car with a full size amber streethawk. The car was a Ford Tarus and had a simple round decal on the door. Guess what? People still thought i was a cop. When I worked for the PD, I took a complaint that a traffic violation had occured in front of a marked expedition yet the cop did nothin. Come to find out it was a fully marked FIRE DEPT expedition. I had a similar complaint where some one wanted our publics works pickups to do a traffic stop. You aren't guilty of impersonation until you tell someone you are a cop and you have the intent to impersonate a cop. Anyone can buy lights, sirens, cop cars, uniforms, radio, etc. because the police don't have the market. Red/blue lights are NOT police lights. Red/blue lights are simply that, red and blue lights that are most commonly used for police. The only thing that is universally restricted is items directly identifying you as the police. Now some areas may regulate certain items and that is fine. But just being in posession of an item is not impersonation. I drive a marked Impalla with a red lightbar, prisioner cage, siren, spotlight, pushbumpers. I were a "police" uniform, have a badge and a radio. Am I impersonating? NO I am not. Why? because I am not identifying myself as a cop. If people mistake me for the police thats their problem not mine because I am not telling them Im the police. Infact everything we have says security on it. My whole point to this longwided statement is that impersonation is not based on equipment or lights, it is based on intent and the media has helped to blow it out of proportion. I know of several cases where someone was called an impersonator for having improper lights. Guess what, they were only imposed a traffic violation and let go, no intent to impersonate.

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                          • #58
                            To start, I'm not the great all knowing Oz so I never take it personally if someone disagrees with me. A lawsuit due to a member of the public thinking you were LE is ludicrous, but in our litigation crazed society its a danger worth considering. Flagging down a cruiser is a common enough occurence in my neck of the woods that its taken for granted. I whole heartedly agree with your point that to the general public, one emergency equipped vehicle is as good to complain to as another. Where I work we have several departments within a few square miles- all of whom have almost the same uniforms and graphic designs on thier vehicles. Who is police and who is security leads to endless guessing as to what department was involved when you get the " I told the officer" calls. As to lights, red/blue combos by law here are for LE only- even having them mounted in your car but not operable will draw attention and some pointed questions. If you're allowed to have them, fine. But why would a non-authorized person need to purchase or have these lights in a pov? There aren't any legitimate reasons that I can think of unless you want that "police" look. Basically its back to my closing comment- stringent controls on light purchases and you have no impersonator problems. If you purchase the lights in an improper color you intend to use them for something, and that questionable intent is what would make me suspicious.
                            Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              But why would a non-authorized person need to purchase or have these lights in a pov? There aren't any legitimate reasons that I can think of unless you want that "police" look. Basically its back to my closing comment- stringent controls on light purchases and you have no impersonator problems. If you purchase the lights in an improper color you intend to use them for something, and that questionable intent is what would make me suspicious.
                              Agreed. Why would a private citizen have lights and siren, if there was no intent. Even if the person says he would never use them sooner or later, he will succumb to temptation and flip the switch.

                              Before that happens, the person enjoys the attention he gets when people see the car and misguidedly think it is a police car. After a while, that high wears off and he needs more to get his fix.
                              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                              -Lieutenant Commander Data
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                Driving a Crown-Vic police look-alike vehicle could be hazardous to your health. Ambushes on the police seem to be on the increase. As noted above, the public are not very discriminating about deciding what is or isn't a police vehicle. What if a deranged individual decides that you are the "police" and you end up being the target? Not likely? I doubt if the police officers who were ambushed recently started their shift worried about being ambushed. But it can and did happen. Just something to consider before driving a POV that looks like a police car.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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