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  • #31
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Impersonating implies that one is intentionally trying to deceive the public for unscrupulous purposes. I can't see how someone dressed as a utility worker for any other reason is a criminal. Has anyone been successfully prosecuted for this?
    Not that I know of, but I haven't looked. But, the idea is that a utility worker is a public utility worker, and therefore they are in a position of trust. It is illegal in Florida to oppose a utility worker when the utility worker is performing their lawful duties, it carries the same penality as it does a police officer.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #32
      One of my old patrol cars had a little hot shot amber light for check point details and then a full blown out emergency response light package. It really defeated the purpose of spending all that money for an undercover system when you could only use on client property.

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      • #33
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        Not that I know of, but I haven't looked. But, the idea is that a utility worker is a public utility worker, and therefore they are in a position of trust. It is illegal in Florida to oppose a utility worker when the utility worker is performing their lawful duties, it carries the same penality as it does a police officer.
        That is interesting. Texas refers to a security officer as a public servant now, but it is still not illegal to interfere with the duties of a security officer, although it is illegal to impersonate one. To place that authority on other types of positions like that says something indeed.
        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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        • #34
          We in florida, should try to get an impersonation of Security officer. we are waiting on the governor to sign a battery on security officer bill now.
          "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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          • #35
            I find it stupid that one could be arrested for impersonation based solely on preception. When I walk around at work, I don't care how many times I have "Boeing Security" on my uniform no one thinks were security. In fact if you walk around Boeing and tell them to call security the usual response is "we have security?" Nope, everyone thinks we are the cops and they often refer to us as the Boeing Police Dept. We have done nothing to encourage this but it is the peoples perception based on our uniforms and job. Now, if one could be arrested for impersonation based on perception you would have 240 security officers sitting in jail right now. That doesn't include other companies either. I guess I am lucky that I live in WA where to be charged with a crime you have to show Intent, not just perception. Lights, Sirens, Cars, etc. don't make the police officer. I am a big advocate of running lights and sirens in crown vics for security companies. They can be useful tools in doing the job at hand which is to prevent crime and protect the client. If an idiot abuses them then punish him severely. That is the problem, the punishment never fits the crime. I have talked to several police officers who could care less if security had red/blue lights. But, because impersonating is not a very serious crime anyways they know certain idiots would abuse it and not be punished for it. Make the punishment fit the crime and the problem would go away.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
              I find it stupid that one could be arrested for impersonation based solely on preception. When I walk around at work, I don't care how many times I have "Boeing Security" on my uniform no one thinks were security. In fact if you walk around Boeing and tell them to call security the usual response is "we have security?" Nope, everyone thinks we are the cops and they often refer to us as the Boeing Police Dept. We have done nothing to encourage this but it is the peoples perception based on our uniforms and job. Now, if one could be arrested for impersonation based on perception you would have 240 security officers sitting in jail right now. That doesn't include other companies either. I guess I am lucky that I live in WA where to be charged with a crime you have to show Intent, not just perception. Lights, Sirens, Cars, etc. don't make the police officer. I am a big advocate of running lights and sirens in crown vics for security companies. They can be useful tools in doing the job at hand which is to prevent crime and protect the client. If an idiot abuses them then punish him severely. That is the problem, the punishment never fits the crime. I have talked to several police officers who could care less if security had red/blue lights. But, because impersonating is not a very serious crime anyways they know certain idiots would abuse it and not be punished for it. Make the punishment fit the crime and the problem would go away.
              You're in-house, and aren't subject to licensing under FSS 493. You wouldn't be subject to the perceptual impersonation statute, only the regular "intent" based Impersonating a Law Enforcement Officer.

              Basically, 493 only applies to contract and armed of any type guards.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #37
                Indiana

                IC 35-44-2-3
                Impersonation of a public servant

                Sec. 3. A person who falsely represents that the person is a public servant, with intent to mislead and induce another person to submit to false official authority or otherwise to act to the other person's detriment in reliance on the false representation, commits impersonation of a public servant, a Class A misdemeanor. However, a person who falsely represents that the person is:
                (1) a law enforcement officer; or
                (2) an agent or employee of the department of state revenue, and collects any property from another person;
                commits a Class D felony.
                I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                -Lieutenant Commander Data
                sigpic

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  Impersonating implies that one is intentionally trying to deceive the public for unscrupulous purposes. I can't see how someone dressed as a utility worker for any other reason is a criminal. Has anyone been successfully prosecuted for this?
                  "window peepers" falls into "unscrupulous purposes."
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Tennsix
                    IC 35-44-2-3
                    Impersonation of a public servant

                    Sec. 3. A person who falsely represents that the person is a public servant, with intent to mislead and induce another person to submit to false official authority or otherwise to act to the other person's detriment in reliance on the false representation, commits impersonation of a public servant, a Class A misdemeanor. However, a person who falsely represents that the person is:
                    (1) a law enforcement officer; or
                    (2) an agent or employee of the department of state revenue, and collects any property from another person;
                    commits a Class D felony.
                    Intent is the key word here. It is much harder to prove.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by bigdog
                      We in florida, should try to get an impersonation of Security officer. we are waiting on the governor to sign a battery on security officer bill now.

                      Assultign a security officer in Michigan is the same as assulting a police officer. Good old felony goes on your record. Been hit quite a few times while working at a mall and a trailer park... Those were the good old days though.......

                      Our vehicle doesn't have a lightbar on it but we have a Whelen Tallon LED light on the windshield. Here Security companies can use Amber and Green, but if your work inhouse security at a school you can run red but you can't activate it on the road unless its to block traffic and nothing else.
                      http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3203/darrell29jc.gif

                      The FUTURE is MSP...

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                      • #41
                        Impersonating a Watchman is already on the books, but nobody knows what the hell a Watchman is. Last reference was in the 1940s, as someone appointed by the Sheriff to guard Vital War Materials. Impersonating, interfering with, or opposing a watchman was a felony, and possibly a national security issue.

                        FOP has model criminal laws for Police Officers, someone should come up with some for Security Personnel.

                        Such as:
                        Impersonating is a crime; Opposing lawful duties is a crime; battery is a crime (job specific instead of regular); codified Citizen's Arrest (Much easier than getting security called peace officers); codified authority to carry firearms with specific [b]security[b] related training; codified authority to carry batons, tasers, and OC with specific security related training; codified authority to use force to protect property from criminal/tortious interference; codified standard for "security persons," including minimum training standards for protective services agencies as well as observation agencies....

                        The list goes on. Might have to fire up word.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Mr. Security
                          Intent is the key word here. It is much harder to prove.
                          This incident exemplifies your position. This guy had all the paraphernalia of an impersonator but the police have yet to determine his intention.
                          Police Impersonator?
                          Last edited by Tennsix; 05-11-2006, 11:11 AM.
                          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                          -Lieutenant Commander Data
                          sigpic

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            See, to me, this story is amusing. He's guilty of:

                            Posession of Stolen Property
                            Driving while Suspended, Limited, Revoked

                            That's it. Having a plate on the back of your car that says "Police Interceptor" (Its not a CVPI, take a look, it looks like a Chevy Caprice Classic, the plate's in the wrong place) means nothing ... its a car designation from Ford.

                            Having a "security guard" uniform, but then a "police-type holster" is also silly. The police do not have a market on "police-type holsters."

                            Either the guy is a police impersonator, or he isn't. The media had to note that sometime in his past he was in security. I'd like to know what his current job is. Or was.

                            My biggest issue with the way the media deals with "impersonation" cases is that anything remotely realted to law enforcement is considered "police only" property, which conveys the message that anyone wearing "police" gear is an impersonator, etc.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                              -Lieutenant Commander Data
                              sigpic

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                                I agree with 1stWatch regarding the light bar. In Connecticut, one may use flashing amber, blue, and green lights on a POV that is operated on public roads if you have been granted a flashing light permit. Blue for volunteer firefighters (red for the Fire Chief), green for ambulance volunteers, and yellow for tow trucks, snow plows, security, etc.
                                And the all red bar if you meet the qualifications as a first responder ( private university forces like Fairfield, Sacred Heart and Wesleyan and factories like Sikorsky). Then I've seen the purple funeral lights lately. As an aside if our cars come across a broken down vehicle or accident within the city they can activate the amber Whelans until one or the other PD arrive by joint agreement.
                                Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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