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  • #46
    I really have two minds about this issue. On the one hand I feel that work is not the place for people to practice their religion on company time. On the other hand, I feel that if doing so does not interfere with their ability to to their jobs, then let them.

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    • #47
      As long as it doesn't interfere with my work or the believers don't start bother those of us who don't believe then I don't have a problem.
      There have been a couple of issues we've had to deal with in the past. An employee who felt the need to crank up their gosphel music on the AM/FM radio in the building. I don't need to spend 12 hours feeling like I'm attending a revival everytime I go to work.
      Another time, while telling a coworker about my weekend doing volunteer work one of our rapture ready employees joined in the conversations with comments such as how she didn't think atheists like me did volunteer work and moved the conversation to the idea that while I may be moral and volunteer my time, unless I accept her mythical father figure I'd be Left Behind. I got a verbal repremand when I told her to F**k off and die if she was gonna bring her hateful ideas into our conversation.
      A new policy bars music in the guard shack/scalehouse and everyone was instructed to be more civil to those who we either believe are gonna burn in hell or should be run over with a car depending on your view.
      When I want to talk with other atheists I check into the forums at Atheist Network- http://www.atheistnetwork.com/
      Hospital Security Officer

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      • #48
        While I'm not an athiest, I am a diest leaning agnostic, raised in the methodist church. I have nothing against anyone of any or no faith, but it's humorous (or maybe not) to look at all of the hypocrites that go to church.

        "If you don't believe the way I do you're going to hell" "If my religion happens to be wrong, God will forgive us" etc.

        And building all these Six Flags Over Jesus monument churches. Don't you think God would rather you meet in a steel bldg, and use the money to help the poor and starving.

        What does it say when a preacher needs body guards? Won't God protect him? And how many white collar, rich criminals are out there attending or used to attend church?

        Sorry I got off on a rant here.
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        The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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        • #49
          While I'm not an athiest, I am a diest leaning agnostic, raised in the methodist church. I have nothing against anyone of any or no faith, but it's humorous (or maybe not) to look at all of the hypocrites that go to church.
          Funny how only people in the church can be called hypocrites. This always amuses me. As though no one else anywhere on the planet has ever said something and not lived up to it

          "If you don't believe the way I do you're going to hell" "If my religion happens to be wrong, God will forgive us" etc.
          As a Christian, I am called to witness about my faith. I will not force it on anyone, however. I prefer what was told to me by a good friend of mine one time. "Worst case scenario, If I'm wrong, I still lived a good life, If you're wrong, you burn in hell." While seemingly callous, it is very true. If atheism is right, then I still lived a good life, if it is not, then I truly did follow the right path and am on my way to Heaven.

          And building all these Six Flags Over Jesus monument churches. Don't you think God would rather you meet in a steel bldg, and use the money to help the poor and starving.
          That is what a tithe is for. Christians are commanded to give the 1st 10% of their income to the church. This is its purpose; to provide salary for the clergy and money for their structure. Missions, etc are to be funded by additional offering since almost everyone can afford to set aside a little to help starving children in Africa. Also, most churches belong to a larger network of churches which will often pool funds to afford mission opportunities.

          What does it say when a preacher needs body guards? Won't God protect him? And how many white collar, rich criminals are out there attending or used to attend church?
          I have never seen a clergyperson, except the pope, with bodyguards. We are told that God will protect us, yes, but we are also told not to test Him. Jesus Christ Himself says that He would not test the grace of the Father.Aside from that, despite the fact that many of us Christians are not afraid of death (we know where we are going when we do) we don't want to die right away. If that is what happens, we obviously have no choice but to accept it, but we are told to make every reasonable attempt to avoid early demise. What does criminals attending church have to do with anything? They are...wait for it....HUMAN...all humans are beings that are inclined to do evil.

          Sorry I got off on a rant here.

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          • #50
            I too am agnostic. My belief is that religions are there for humans to try & explain the unexplainable. I believe that man presently can not inderstand the meaning of life, what exactly is the universe. (Where does it end, what was there before it began etc). Religion with a "God" gives some comfort. I however accept that there are somethings that are too complicated for us to understand. One day maybe we will! BTW I am not taking any chances although I don't worship (another thing I can't understand-why would a Sipreme Being like God need to be worshiped?) I live under Christian morals,I don't know what controls the universe, naybe it is God
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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            • #51
              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              Funny how only people in the church can be called hypocrites. This always amuses me. As though no one else anywhere on the planet has ever said something and not lived up to it.
              Ok, I expected that. I'm not saying non-christians (and actually I should point out I feel the same about most organized religion), aren't hypocrites, I'm just saying that they have their share. In other words, don't go high and mighty because I'm agnostic, without looking in your own church too. Some people think that only athiests and agnostics can be evil, or that all of them are.

              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              As a Christian, I am called to witness about my faith. I will not force it on anyone, however. I prefer what was told to me by a good friend of mine one time. "Worst case scenario, If I'm wrong, I still lived a good life, If you're wrong, you burn in hell." While seemingly callous, it is very true. If atheism is right, then I still lived a good life, if it is not, then I truly did follow the right path and am on my way to Heaven.
              It sounds like you're saying I'm agnostic so I can not live a good life, like it's a reason to be agnostic or it's mutually exclusive. I feel I live a good life, I sleep well (at least when it comes to my consciensce, not with the stresses of business, payroll, etc though). I don't take advantage of my customers or my employees. As far as burning in hell, I wonder. If a person never knew God, but was a good person, made good contributions to humanity, would a forgiving God condemn them to hell? Is this the same God than can forgive a child molester that is Saved? I'm being serious, sarcastic. What about the person who is devout, until something horrific happens to their family. And then they denounce God. They don't become a bad person, they are just angry and hurt. Are they condemned to hell?

              Also, my reference is more to "xxx" denomination who says only they are going to heaven, and the "yyy" denomination isn't cause they're wrong.

              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              That is what a tithe is for. Christians are commanded to give the 1st 10% of their income to the church. This is its purpose; to provide salary for the clergy and money for their structure. Missions, etc are to be funded by additional offering since almost everyone can afford to set aside a little to help starving children in Africa. Also, most churches belong to a larger network of churches which will often pool funds to afford mission opportunities.
              Personally, I just don't think enough is being done for those who need it. I think, in some cases, they should spend 6 million less on the building, and help those in need. The homeless, destitute, the oppressed. Not justin Africa, or the USA, but anywhere. IT's just an opinion, mine.

              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              I have never seen a clergyperson, except the pope, with bodyguards. We are told that God will protect us, yes, but we are also told not to test Him. Jesus Christ Himself says that He would not test the grace of the Father.
              I know of at least several, including one first hand. I guess I was a little sarcastic with that one though. My apologies.

              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              Aside from that, despite the fact that many of us Christians are not afraid of death.
              While I can't speak for anyone else, I'm ready whenever it happens.

              Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
              all humans are beings that are inclined to do evil..
              I don't believe that all or even most humans are inclined to do evil. I think it's the exception not the rule. Unfortunately, most humans are too complacent about it though, not willing to do anything about it.

              An aside on that last - Should we, as Americans, be the worlds policeman - no. Should we, as decent human beings, stop genocide, rape & abuse & starvation by warlords - YES! (Before anyone flames for wanting to send others to war - I'm a 9 year vet, my brother's a 4 year vet, my step-dad is a 4 year active, 20 year reserve retired vet, my father served in Korea, and several uncles are vets. I encourage my children and EVERY American to follow suit.)
              Last edited by integrator97; 09-08-2007, 01:31 AM.
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              • #52
                ok...

                Ok, I expected that. I'm not saying non-christians (and actually I should point out I feel the same about most organized religion), aren't hypocrites, I'm just saying that they have their share. In other words, don't go high and mighty because I'm agnostic, without looking in your own church too. Some people think that only athiests and agnostics can be evil, or that all of them are.
                Nah, I know the world has its share of evil everywhere. Don't judge me on my beliefs or try to generalize me in with bunch of others, I won't do the same either.


                It sounds like you're saying I'm agnostic so I can not live a good life, like it's a reason to be agnostic or it's mutually exclusive. I feel I live a good life, I sleep well (at least when it comes to my consciensce, not with the stresses of business, payroll, etc though). I don't take advantage of my customers or my employees. As far as burning in hell, I wonder. If a person never knew God, but was a good person, made good contributions to humanity, would a forgiving God condemn them to hell? Is this the same God than can forgive a child molester that is Saved? I'm being serious, sarcastic. What about the person who is devout, until something horrific happens to their family. And then they denounce God. They don't become a bad person, they are just angry and hurt. Are they condemned to hell?
                Actually, the issue of those who do not hear is one that is debated among religious scholars. To the best of my knowledge of Scripture, I don't know. I honestly cannot say, I have not looked into it too deeply, but can if it is desired and I have the time. As far as denouncing God, that is the only sin (acknowledged by most mainstream Christian churches) that is unforgiveable. Christians use the example of the Biblical story of Job. A man who had it worse than anybody ever could claim to and yet he never gave up and remained faithful. Also, I don't feel that a good life is a mutually exclusive thing. I know of some very charitable people (Bill Gates said religion is not efficient) who still do good things. I also question those in religious authority who rape little boys.

                Also, my reference is more to "xxx" denomination who says only they are going to heaven, and the "yyy" denomination isn't cause they're wrong.
                The reason I am Lutheran, actually. We tend to try and explain our position, in general, without being overly judgemental.

                Personally, I just don't think enough is being done for those who need it. I think, in some cases, they should spend 6 million less on the building, and help those in need. The homeless, destitute, the oppressed. Not justin Africa, or the USA, but anywhere. IT's just an opinion, mine.
                Understood. I do my part in mission work, in this field there is only so much money to go around. Yes, some churches are a little ridiculous in their building of sanctuaries, but do you realize how few and far between they really are? The question could also be posed: What are you doing about it*?

                I know of at least several, including one first hand. I guess I was a little sarcastic with that one though. My apologies.
                Oh. Like I said, never seen it.

                While I can't speak for anyone else, I'm ready whenever it happens.
                I don't think anyone should fear death. As a Christian speaking to one who does not believe, you know what I am going to say, so I will not bother you ;-)


                I don't believe that all or even most humans are inclined to do evil. I think it's the exception not the rule. Unfortunately, most humans are too complacent about it though, not willing to do anything about it.
                I am not saying purely evil as murderers, pederasts, etc. I am saying that mankind is inclined to do what is best for themselves. We all look out for number one first. It is through this that evil is born and manifested in the horrid forms we see around the globe; from the OK city bombings to genocide in the Congo.

                An aside on that last - Should we, as Americans, be the worlds policeman - no. Should we, as decent human beings, stop genocide, rape & abuse & starvation by warlords - YES! (Before anyone flames for wanting to send others to war - I'm a 9 year vet, my brother's a 4 year vet, my step-dad is a 4 year active, 20 year reserve retired vet, my father served in Korea, and several uncles are vets. I encourage my children and EVERY American to follow suit.)
                To you and your family: thanks for what you do or have done. I wish I could serve, but am medically unable. I have a brother in Iraq right now USMC. A cousin in the Navy and another in the Army. As far as helping people, yes, we should, but it should not rest squarely on our shoulders. I have no problem helping those in need, but I should not be forced to do so, nor should it be necessarily handled in the way our government chooses to.

                *Not meant as a personal stab, heck...take it as a rhetorical question if ya want to.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  Nah, I know the world has its share of evil everywhere. Don't judge me on my beliefs or try to generalize me in with bunch of others, I won't do the same either.
                  Deal. I believe in Kharma. I'm a big believer in what goes around comes around.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  Actually, the issue of those who do not hear is one that is debated among religious scholars. To the best of my knowledge of Scripture, I don't know. I honestly cannot say, I have not looked into it too deeply, but can if it is desired and I have the time. As far as denouncing God, that is the only sin (acknowledged by most mainstream Christian churches) that is unforgiveable. Christians use the example of the Biblical story of Job. A man who had it worse than anybody ever could claim to and yet he never gave up and remained faithful. Also, I don't feel that a good life is a mutually exclusive thing. I know of some very charitable people (Bill Gates said religion is not efficient) who still do good things. I also question those in religious authority who rape little boys.
                  I've never seen it in scripture. I have actually had someone argue with me that once you are saved, it can't be taken away. They said even if you do something wrong, even murder or rape, after you're saved, your ok. I disagree wholeheartedly with that. Especially a notion that a good athiest or agnostic or even non saved person would be sent to hell, but a "saved" person who sinned badly after being saved would be forgiven.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  The reason I am Lutheran, actually. We tend to try and explain our position, in general, without being overly judgemental.
                  And I have no problem with that. I have friends and customers in many denominations. I have no problem discussing religion, and maybe because I have become agnostic as an adult, I think I've actually read a lot more about religion than a lot of people. I've read the New Testament, and a fair amount of the Old, I have the book of Mormon, and a Koran, as well as several Bibles. I've read The Book of God. And have several denominations of churches as customers.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  Understood. I do my part in mission work, in this field there is only so much money to go around. Yes, some churches are a little ridiculous in their building of sanctuaries, but do you realize how few and far between they really are? The question could also be posed: What are you doing about it*?
                  Well, I guess not much on the things I mentioned, but we are a corp. sponsor for our local ACS Relay for Life (cancer), We made a sizeable donation in kind on a system and monitor for free for a local non profit school for handicapped children (mainly preschool and lower grades), and have provided free service for a - get this - church preschool. I would like to do more. If I ever win the big lottery, most is going to charity. Of course I guess I need to buy tickets. But I leave that to my wife.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  Oh. Like I said, never seen it.
                  I'm sure most don't have them, and those that do generally don't publicise it.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  I am not saying purely evil as murderers, pederasts, etc. I am saying that mankind is inclined to do what is best for themselves. We all look out for number one first. It is through this that evil is born and manifested in the horrid forms we see around the globe; from the OK city bombings to genocide in the Congo.
                  You're probably right for the most part, but not entirely. I know people who could be wealthy, or a lot better off than they are if they wanted to be, by not being so giving.

                  Originally posted by dougo83 View Post
                  To you and your family: thanks for what you do or have done. I wish I could serve, but am medically unable. I have a brother in Iraq right now USMC. A cousin in the Navy and another in the Army. As far as helping people, yes, we should, but it should not rest squarely on our shoulders. I have no problem helping those in need, but I should not be forced to do so, nor should it be necessarily handled in the way our government chooses to.
                  And thank you to yours. I wish your brother well and a safe return, and will keep him in my thoughts. Thanks to your brother and cousins. Go NAVY!
                  Last edited by integrator97; 09-08-2007, 11:33 AM.
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                  Rocket Science
                  Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


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                  The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by integrator97 View Post
                    I have no problem discussing religion, and maybe because I have become agnostic as an adult, I think I've actually read a lot more about religion than a lot of people. I've read the New Testament, and a fair amount of the Old, I have the book of Mormon, and a Koran, as well as several Bibles. I've read The Book of God. And have several denominations of churches as customers.
                    That's what agnostics do. Athiests deny outright that there is a God. We are open & searching.
                    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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                    • #55
                      I'd agree with an earlier comment, if your religion does not interfere with how well you work and how well you watch my back etc... you can believe whatever you want.

                      Although at my job it is a Lutheran Campus so religion does get annoying sometimes since it is in the very bones of the college. Though one of my fellow officers cusses even worse than I do.
                      -Protect and Serve-

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                      • #56
                        hey

                        Wouldn't happen to be CUSt.Paul would it?

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by jbaerbock View Post
                          Although at my job it is a Lutheran Campus so religion does get annoying sometimes since it is in the very bones of the college.
                          Kinda hard to complain when you take a job at a place with a religious background, huh.
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                          Rocket Science
                          Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                          http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                          One Man's Opinion

                          The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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