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  • #16
    I hear a hammerlock can work wonders for grounding a suspect with his hands in his pockets . What are some of the tactics you use for room clearing ? firearm angled down or along your pant leg, When I find an unsecured room I will notify my dispatcher and use my maglight to scan the structure (I will not get to close to the walls because I dont want to run into retention problems if they are around a corner) If someone is making me nervous I will create distance.

    stay safe
    Ben

    ps-great tactics everyone please keep them coming, the more we learn the safer we will be

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by Defensive tactics
      I hear a hammerlock can work wonders for grounding a suspect with his hands in his pockets . What are some of the tactics you use for room clearing ? firearm angled down or along your pant leg, When I find an unsecured room I will notify my dispatcher and use my maglight to scan the structure (I will not get to close to the walls because I dont want to run into retention problems if they are around a corner) If someone is making me nervous I will create distance.

      stay safe
      Ben

      ps-great tactics everyone please keep them coming, the more we learn the safer we will be
      Number one I would never start a room/bldg sweep without backup. I always held my duty weapon close in at my side, muzzle out. Didn't want to have it deflected while attempting to raise it, have a door or object slammed into my weapon/arm. Always had a red marker (large) to mark checked and secured or open doors so I never had to guess what was behind me. Never cross in front of doors or windows where you will be backlit, if its necessary low and quick! Use patience! Never rush in. You have eyes,ears and all the time in the world so use them to scan and listen. Never become fixated on one spot, keep that head swiveling and remember the one you see might have friends. If you go in with a partner always, always know where they are. Come up with an entry plan ahead of time (who takes what side, mutual cover, etc.) If there are lights in the area turn them on if you can do so safely then wait,listen and watch. And never be too macho to back out and wait, its the cautious guys picking up the retirement
      Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by Bridgegate
        Fair enough... lol
        Here's a few more...

        ALWAYS retain control of the situation. From start to finish, the subject you're contacting/trespassing/arresting should KNOW that you are in control. It's okay to let them vent for a few minutes if they're upset, but they need to know that YOU are the one making the decisions.
        Don't get stuck in an endless argument with a subject. Give them a few chances to comply willingly. (I normally go with 3 strikes, you're out) If they aren't willing to comply, it's cuff or LE time.
        On that last chance, never threaten an action that you aren't willing to follow through with. If you tell the person that you'll call LE if they don't leave, and they don't, then CALL. If you don't, or give them more chances to argue, you've just given up control of the situation.
        For those on patrol: If you're pulling over for a motorist assist, PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE don't forget to check traffic coming from behind you, BEFORE opening your door.

        And a personal favorite, told to me by the LE Sgt. who did my OC training:
        NEVER fight fair. Nowhere in law or policy does it state that you can't fight dirty, and your #1 absolute priority is that you go home safe at the end of every shift. Better to be tried by 12 than carried by 6.
        Very good points!!
        This is how I was trained some 28 years ago:
        Ask him, Tell him, Take him. Fight dirty, there are no rules when fighting, rules are for games, this is not a game.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by T202
          Very good points!!
          This is how I was trained some 28 years ago:
          Ask him, Tell him, Take him. Fight dirty, there are no rules when fighting, rules are for games, this is not a game.
          Next to my handcuff case was a military style compress holder in case you got wounded. I carried play sand in it instead. Only had to use it three times in my career. Works like a charm. For some strange reason I'll never understand, a fellow with sand in his eyes is more than happy to comply with all your "suggestions."
          Dirty pool, I never read the pool manual, sorry!
          Enjoy the day,
          Bill

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Bill Warnock
            Next to my handcuff case was a military style compress holder in case you got wounded. I carried play sand in it instead. Only had to use it three times in my career. Works like a charm. For some strange reason I'll never understand, a fellow with sand in his eyes is more than happy to comply with all your "suggestions."
            Dirty pool, I never read the pool manual, sorry!
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill
            That is a good one. I think you could market that. "Bill's self-defense play sand".

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by T202
              That is a good one. I think you could market that. "Bill's self-defense play sand".
              Shhh... don't talk about it too much. We can't defend ourselves with Tazers or OC in Canada. If they hear about this they might ban sand too
              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by ycaso77
                Number one I would never start a room/bldg sweep without backup. I always held my duty weapon close in at my side, muzzle out. Didn't want to have it deflected while attempting to raise it, have a door or object slammed into my weapon/arm. Always had a red marker (large) to mark checked and secured or open doors so I never had to guess what was behind me. Never cross in front of doors or windows where you will be backlit, if its necessary low and quick! Use patience! Never rush in. You have eyes,ears and all the time in the world so use them to scan and listen. Never become fixated on one spot, keep that head swiveling and remember the one you see might have friends. If you go in with a partner always, always know where they are. Come up with an entry plan ahead of time (who takes what side, mutual cover, etc.) If there are lights in the area turn them on if you can do so safely then wait,listen and watch. And never be too macho to back out and wait, its the cautious guys picking up the retirement
                Excellent points... When I was doing patrol/response, it was actually policy that if a door or window was found to be unsecured upon arrival, the responding S/O was REQUIRED to wait outside until at LEAST one other unit could arrive, if not more..
                Personally, I carry a small tac-light rather than a mag, and I was trained to keep my weapon in the low-ready position out in front of me.. (Weaver stance)
                Oh, and awesome idea on the red marker! I'll have to remember that one!
                Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                Originally posted by ValleyOne
                BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                Shoulda called in sick.
                Be safe!

                Comment


                • #23
                  room clearing

                  alternatly when I am clearing a room I will use my big maglight to light up the room and my small one in my palm for "emergencies", I always notify dispatch when I a clearing a room and notify them when I am clear, What are some of the biggest indicators (in your experience) showing that someone wants to fight, for me it is..

                  1. pale skin
                  2. 1000 yard glare
                  3. target aquisition
                  4. clenching the fist
                  5. moving closer
                  6. hands in the pockets
                  7. ignoring the officer
                  8. looking around for my back up or his
                  9. dropping one shoulder or leg back

                  * I also try and watch for collapsed nose/makiwara marks on the knuckles/cuts above the eyes/bulges in the pockets/martial arts attire.

                  please add to the list some more tactics
                  lets see how long we can get this thread to go on

                  stay safe
                  Ben

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Don't show your cards.

                    If you must make an arrest, say: "Just hang tight while I fill out some paperwork and then we can wrap this matter up." This implies to the subject that you are not going to detain and arrest them. Meanwhile, back up is on the way. Once back up arrives, you can explain that the only way this matter can be resolved is by making an arrest. Now you will have the manpower that you need to make the arrest and minimize the danger of being overpowered.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr. Security
                      If you must make an arrest, say: "Just hang tight while I fill out some paperwork and then we can wrap this matter up." This implies to the subject that you are not going to detain and arrest them. Meanwhile, back up is on the way. Once back up arrives, you can explain that the only way this matter can be resolved is by making an arrest. Now you will have the manpower that you need to make the arrest and minimize the danger of being overpowered.
                      Excellent! Mr. Security you are to be commended.
                      If, I repeat, if you have time on your side, use it to your advantage.
                      Screw it up, you might not go home that night or if you go home, not all in once piece. Always remember the Second Deadly Sin or violation of the Second of the Ten Commandments of Security and Law Enforcement, "Tomesone Courage."
                      If you make a really bad decision, your only course of action may be to put your head between your legs and kiss your butt goodbye.
                      It's an old saw, but a true one, "Fools rush in where angels fear to tread."
                      Again, to your credit, well said.
                      Enjoy the day,
                      Bill

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Thanks Bill. Coming from a veteran like yourself, I consider that a real compliment.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Like Bill said, if you have time on your side, use it to your advantage. If you don't, immediate action is your savior.

                          Last night as I entered the emergency room through the ambulance bay a patient rounded the corner immediately in front of me - no advantage for me as she was already within a foot of me. I told her to stop and her reaction was to lunge forward and reach in with both hands to try to strip my holstered Taser from me. I could only react. Continual practice in weapons retention tactics lead to her being quickly dumped into a large rolling linen cart and placed into a control holds by myself and one of our social workers (who just happens to be a retired state corrections officer). I had no warning of her approach and no officer for backup.

                          By statements she made afterwards she believed she was grabbing for a firearm. She made the statement that she "wasn't going to hurt anyone else" with it. I find out afterwards she was on suicide watch.

                          In those times of no advantage - action, action, action (even if that action may be a necessary retreat to provide some safety for the officer).
                          "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by aka Bull
                            .... I told her to stop and her reaction was to lunge forward and reach in with both hands to try to strip my holstered Taser from me.

                            By statements she made afterwards she believed she was grabbing for a firearm. She made the statement that she "wasn't going to hurt anyone else" with it. I find out afterwards she was on suicide watch.......
                            Too bad you didn't know that before she grabbed for your taser. She would have been in for a 'shock' when she tried to 'shoot herself.'
                            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Mr. Security
                              Too bad you didn't know that before she grabbed for your taser. She would have been in for a 'shock' when she tried to 'shoot herself.'
                              Very true. But then I could see the reaction of Amnesty International -

                              "Tasers are so dangerous now people know they can commit suicide by using them on themselves"
                              "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by aka Bull
                                Like Bill said, if you have time on your side, use it to your advantage. If you don't, immediate action is your savior.

                                Last night as I entered the emergency room through the ambulance bay a patient rounded the corner immediately in front of me - no advantage for me as she was already within a foot of me. I told her to stop and her reaction was to lunge forward and reach in with both hands to try to strip my holstered Taser from me. I could only react. Continual practice in weapons retention tactics lead to her being quickly dumped into a large rolling linen cart and placed into a control holds by myself and one of our social workers (who just happens to be a retired state corrections officer). I had no warning of her approach and no officer for backup.

                                By statements she made afterwards she believed she was grabbing for a firearm. She made the statement that she "wasn't going to hurt anyone else" with it. I find out afterwards she was on suicide watch.

                                In those times of no advantage - action, action, action (even if that action may be a necessary retreat to provide some safety for the officer).
                                That young man is exactly my, point, practice, practice and more practice. You must stay on top of your game. Play what if... all the time. In this manner, you will keep surprises to a minimum.
                                Splendid reaction on your part!
                                Mr. Security, I think we might just have another club member. What say you?
                                Enjoy the day,
                                Bill

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