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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    If you're going to have dispatchers, they should be trained to some standard. Doesn't have to be a police standard, but clear expectations and training should be given.
    Unfortunately the director of patrol isn't in charge of dispatch or they would have taken remedial training in that regard by now. However, since the powers that be are in the positions they are in... (dysfunction syndrome)
    They're not a complete waste since they do facilitate effective enough communication between alarm clients and respective p.d.'s to give a reasonable satisfaction to those clients and they do dispatch applicable calls to guards or patrol officers swiftly.

    At least they are not given actual authority by the company to override a supervisor's orders or even take people off the clock like they were at another company I worked for that was much more severely dysfunctional. This group of people actually tries and normally has a good attitude about doing the job, which is more than I can say for others I've had the experience of working with.

    Then again, that's just 5 cents of mine. I don't have any control over what those people do since I'm just a peon.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    We have a group of inexperienced security dispatchers like that. We get a call that sounds something like "the resident at apt 101 wants to speak to you" with no subject matter or details of the call. We show up and find out somebody's in the apartment smashing it up. Thanks for asking the caller what he needed us for, dillweed. I really wish they'd just eliminate that dept of the company and have the incoming calls forwarded to the supervisor's phone.
    If you're going to have dispatchers, they should be trained to some standard. Doesn't have to be a police standard, but clear expectations and training should be given.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    ...In dealing with these types of calls I have another problem. I regularly get a call "Security is wanted at the bar" PERIOD! No other info. I call the Operator back & ask "what for?" I'm told "I didn't ask"...
    We have a group of inexperienced security dispatchers like that. We get a call that sounds something like "the resident at apt 101 wants to speak to you" with no subject matter or details of the call. We show up and find out somebody's in the apartment smashing it up. Thanks for asking the caller what he needed us for, dillweed. I really wish they'd just eliminate that dept of the company and have the incoming calls forwarded to the supervisor's phone.

    Leave a comment:


  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Following someone in a company vehicle is basically a low-speed pursuit. The only time I suggest this is if something really bad has happened (such as a murder or forcible felony you personally observed or have probable cause to believe the actor is the person you're following) and you are the only person who knows where the suspect is. You have 911 on the speakerphone or your dispatcher does, and you're calling it out on the air or to 911 as a pursuit...

    ...The second you follow someone in a marked company vehicle, or even an unmarked, you just became a pursuing officer attempting to make an arrest. You have to be extremely careful - all the liability concerns of a police pursuit apply to you! If the suspect drives crazy, and all you're doing is following him, they still might consider it a "pursuit" and try to go after you civilly.
    Those rules basically apply to my area as well; however, there have been problems with it. Some departments here would laud action such as what you described as excellent work and perfectly legal. Others, such as that of the big fat ugly D, would take such action as impersonation of police and you would be locked up if it involved flashing lights and siren or air horn equipment. They're really sensitive about that stuff and get their noses bent about it easily. We've also had problems with their 911 ordering our people to stop following, which is for prevention of civil liability on the part of the city, but it makes it easier for the bad guy to sue you just for following him since 911 told you otherwise.

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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    If you walk in on a robbery, you're going to have an issue really fast. Most people don't see anything but the uniform and badge...

    ...Remember you are a uniformed officer, a symbol of lawful authority before you get out. Do not lower your guard or "color condition" because you are off shift. You are, until your uniform comes off, on duty as far as the public is concerned. You a threat to the criminal and a source of protection to the public. "Any port in a storm" and all that. Keep this in mind when you go in.

    My company had a rule that extended "performance of duties" to convinence stores during or directly after our shift. If we were in a company vehicle, we were to remain armed at all times. Florida's 493 stated you had to disarm if "not in performance of duties" or not on "the client's site." Well, your performance of duties was driving that vehicle.

    Also, if your wearing an empty holster and walk into a robbery, all the bad guy is going to take note of is gun, badge, shoot!
    This is precisely why I object to mandatory removal of weapons before entering such a facility. Texas has a law that states we may only be armed while at our "place of assignment" or while travelling directly to or from the place of assignment or while conducting duties as a security officer. Unfortunately, the interpretation of that law has been applied such that "place of assignment" is only at places where a contractual agreement to provide service is in place and "conducting duties" only applies if an incident such as the one you described is actually in progress. Walk in with an empty holster while an armed robbery is in progress and you're most likely going to get shot or get someone else shot. Walk in with the gun on when a robbery isn't in progress and you risk getting locked up for a felony.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    Working in a suit & tie with a badge on a chain around my neck or clipped to my pocket is an advantage in a situation like this. Whenever I respond to a call for a disturbance in the bar or restaurant I remove the badge & hide the walkie-talkie. I enter & observe before I put the id back on.

    In dealing with these types of calls I have another problem. I regularly get a call "Security is wanted at the bar" PERIOD! No other info. I call the Operator back & ask "what for?" I'm told "I didn't ask". This drives me nuts Am I walking into a robbery, do I need to bring a first aid kit, a fire extinguisher? I keep telling the Operators over & over that they MUST get as much information as possible when giving me this type of call but still it happens often.
    We had a policy on that. Find out why we're going there, or we won't respond. Period.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Working in a suit & tie with a badge on a chain around my neck or clipped to my pocket is an advantage in a situation like this. Whenever I respond to a call for a disturbance in the bar or restaurant I remove the badge & hide the walkie-talkie. I enter & observe before I put the id back on.

    In dealing with these types of calls I have another problem. I regularly get a call "Security is wanted at the bar" PERIOD! No other info. I call the Operator back & ask "what for?" I'm told "I didn't ask". This drives me nuts Am I walking into a robbery, do I need to bring a first aid kit, a fire extinguisher? I keep telling the Operators over & over that they MUST get as much information as possible when giving me this type of call but still it happens often.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tennsix
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    There are times when the word, included in a quotation, conveys the sense of urgency and purpose in a verbal command. Most of our field guys who have issued verbal commands will know exactly what the situation was when someone is giving verbal commands the Samuel L. Jackson way.

    Part of tactical communication is knowing both when to be nice, and when to be abusive and verbally intimidate the suspect. When the suspect is trying to kill a fellow officer, the tactical communication method should convey speed, shock, and maximum violence of action upon immediate failure to comply.
    I do not make it a habit to curse in the performance of my duties but there times when a few well placed curse words do serve a purpose. There are some people that do not understand the concept of civility and one has to speak in their tongue to effectively communicate.
    Last edited by Tennsix; 05-14-2006, 12:18 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    .......
    The second you follow someone in a marked company vehicle, or even an unmarked, you just became a pursuing officer attempting to make an arrest. You have to be extremely careful - all the liability concerns of a police pursuit apply to you! If the suspect drives crazy, and all you're doing is following him, they still might consider it a "pursuit" and try to go after you civilly.
    Exactly. My company would fire me in a heartbeat if I used their vehicle in such a situation. "Here's your medal of valor. Incidentally, you're FIRED!"

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    In a company vehicle? No. In my POV? Absolutely.
    Following someone in a company vehicle is basically a low-speed pursuit. The only time I suggest this is if something really bad has happened (such as a murder or forcible felony you personally observed or have probable cause to believe the actor is the person you're following) and you are the only person who knows where the suspect is. You have 911 on the speakerphone or your dispatcher does, and you're calling it out on the air or to 911 as a pursuit.

    At that point, you have to do the same thing a pursuing officer does. Pursue to maintain visual contact with the suspect vehicle, while ensuring that the safety of the public is not jeapordized.

    I knew a guy who pulled up onto a burglary during mobile patrol, in Saint Petersburg (Florida). He was in a marked patrol vehicle. They brandished a weapon at him, then fled. As they were driving like madmen to get away from the company supervisor, the supervisor was calling 911 on speakerphone. SPPD requested that he follow the car. He did, no lights, normal speeds. The suspect vehicle started running reds to evade chase, and the PD supervisor advised dispatchers to have the patrol car turn on its overheads and "keep up with the car, don't lose it till you get a tag." Old SPPD trick, "We don't pursue. We accelerate to get a tag number. It might take awhile, though."

    So, you have this BG running 55 MPH (normal speed of traffic) in a 35 (Which nobody obeys), running red lights. People kinda figured out its time to stop when they saw amber/white lights going off everywhere.

    SPPD finally got the two suspects after they bailed from the car and were chased down by the supervisor and SPPD. The PD supervisor suggested to our patrol supervisor that they install a digital air horn to warn motorists as well as help SPPD find the car.

    We would of been crucified if we'd done that in a city to the north, and lauded if we did it in a city across the bay. Goes to show you how sometimes, the police will enjoy the fact that private citizen's aren't bound by police policy. No pursuit policy? That only applies to SPPD.

    The second you follow someone in a marked company vehicle, or even an unmarked, you just became a pursuing officer attempting to make an arrest. You have to be extremely careful - all the liability concerns of a police pursuit apply to you! If the suspect drives crazy, and all you're doing is following him, they still might consider it a "pursuit" and try to go after you civilly.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by T202
    It doesn't go away either. Retired three years ago and I still look in the windows before going in the store. Go out to eat and sit with my back against the wall, drives my wife nuts.
    I stay away from gas stations and fast food restaurants when it's about closing time. I also sit as close to an exit as possible so that I can "split" if I see a potential robbery coming. I want to avoid the nightmare situation of being forced to lie facedown on the floor not knowing whether the robber intends on doing more than just cleaning out the cash register.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I only sit in the corners with my back against the wall. It drives my girlfriend nuts. I showed this to her, and she's like, "Oh, good, other people are driven nuts too."

    Leave a comment:


  • T202
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    If you walk in on a robbery, you're going to have an issue really fast. Most people don't see anything but the uniform and badge.

    There were steps that I was taught to parking and entering a structure in uniform to minimize the amount of problems you'd have inside it from this sort of thing. I use them to this day.

    1. Park away from the doors. This creates a distance gap between the doors and you, allowing you time to survey the scene, and if necessary, react to a situation.

    2. Size up the situation in the store before you get out. Look inside the windows. Is there a problem in the store? Are all the shutters closed? How many people are in it? What are they doing? This prevents you from walking in blind.

    3. Remember you are a uniformed officer, a symbol of lawful authority before you get out. Do not lower your guard or "color condition" because you are off shift. You are, until your uniform comes off, on duty as far as the public is concerned. You a threat to the criminal and a source of protection to the public. "Any port in a storm" and all that. Keep this in mind when you go in.

    My company had a rule that extended "performance of duties" to convinence stores during or directly after our shift. If we were in a company vehicle, we were to remain armed at all times. Florida's 493 stated you had to disarm if "not in performance of duties" or not on "the client's site." Well, your performance of duties was driving that vehicle.

    Also, if your wearing an empty holster and walk into a robbery, all the bad guy is going to take note of is gun, badge, shoot!
    It doesn't go away either. Retired three years ago and I still look in the windows before going in the store. Go out to eat and sit with my back against the wall, drives my wife nuts.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by T202
    I agree, if you walk in on them, cooperate and be a good witness later. Would you try and follow them when they left? I don't mean high speed pursuit, but at a distance calling 911 with the location and direction of travel.
    In a company vehicle? No. In my POV? Absolutely.

    Leave a comment:


  • T202
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    There are times when the word, included in a quotation, conveys the sense of urgency and purpose in a verbal command. Most of our field guys who have issued verbal commands will know exactly what the situation was when someone is giving verbal commands the Samuel L. Jackson way.

    Part of tactical communication is knowing both when to be nice, and when to be abusive and verbally intimidate the suspect. When the suspect is trying to kill a fellow officer, the tactical communication method should convey speed, shock, and maximum violence of action upon immediate failure to comply.
    A old veteran range officer once told me that if you ever have to pull your weapon on a high risk suspect, scream and swear at him like a madman. He may actual think your nuts enough to really want to shoot him.

    Leave a comment:

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