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  • #2
    If the robbers saw your uniform while you were getting gas, they probably would have waited for you to leave. If you walked in on the robbery, it might have gotten ugly. If I interrupted a robbery, I would immediately show my hands, tell them I am unarmed, and cooperate. Dead heroes can't help anyone.
    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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    • #3
      The company vehicle I was riding shotgun in stopped at a Shell station. As we went through the car wash, the store was robbed at knife point. Shell station person ran out into traffic, waved down a deputy as we exited. I was like, "That's odd." Tire squealing, car shoots past us. We decided to see where the bad guy's car was going as the deputy exited and started following it, too.

      Six hours later, I had finally finished all the reports. During the initial traffic stop at a red light, the bad guy struck the deputy with his car, just as we pulled up behind the deputy. He was OK, jumped in, and the pursuit was on.

      Followed em, found the suspect's car in a ditch on a steep curb in Tampa proper, the deputy's car parked, and no sign of deputy or suspect. The employee I was with wasn't sure what to do, and I kinda... took over. He covered me as I checked the deputy's car to make sure it didn't have a deputy down in it, or a suspect in it, then we circled the tractor trailer lot and made contact with a fighting deputy and suspect. The sudden appearance of a black uniform shouting such commands as "show me your motherf--king hands," and "roll the f--- over or I'm going to motherf--king shoot you" at high volume distracted the bad guy enough that the deputy who was underneath him was able to reveral and mount the bad guy. Bad guy was over the deputy with a closed ASP in his hand, couldn't tell what it looked like at 30 feet. So, I was advancing and yelling verbal commands while engaged with firearm.

      The guy was charged with everything we could think of. Originally, just strong arm robbery. Oh, but wait, found a crack pipe during search. Possession of drug paraphanalia. Don't you remember the guy hit you with his car? Oh, yeah. Aggarvated Battery on a Law Enforcement Officer. Obviously, he fought, so Resisting Arrest with Violence.

      Worst part was it took us 10 minutes to figure out where we were. And the deputy hadn't put his location out for 15. When we finally figured out a cross street, the other deputy (There were more coming) that arrived was like, "Yeah, we had no clue where you guys were." The deputy bailed without radioing his position.

      The aftermath was fun, at least. Got hit on by a cute traffic deputy, got to play in a crime scene and not get yelled at for it, watched a Tampa Police vs. Hillsborough County Sheriff turf war over the car, and met several HCSO sergeants and the shift Lieutenant. Nobody said anything like, "You shouldn't of stopped," just "We're glad you guys stopped and helped our deputy."

      I ran out of business cards that morning, everyone was like, "Ok, so Dep. Garcia said to talk to you, since you know what happened start to finish." Exchange of business cards so that we know who we're putting in our reports, etc.
      Some Kind of Commando Leader

      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Mr. Security
        If the robbers saw your uniform while you were getting gas, they probably would have waited for you to leave. If you walked in on the robbery, it might have gotten ugly. If I interrupted a robbery, I would immediately show my hands, tell them I am unarmed, and cooperate. Dead heroes can't help anyone.
        If you walk in on a robbery, you're going to have an issue really fast. Most people don't see anything but the uniform and badge.

        There were steps that I was taught to parking and entering a structure in uniform to minimize the amount of problems you'd have inside it from this sort of thing. I use them to this day.

        1. Park away from the doors. This creates a distance gap between the doors and you, allowing you time to survey the scene, and if necessary, react to a situation.

        2. Size up the situation in the store before you get out. Look inside the windows. Is there a problem in the store? Are all the shutters closed? How many people are in it? What are they doing? This prevents you from walking in blind.

        3. Remember you are a uniformed officer, a symbol of lawful authority before you get out. Do not lower your guard or "color condition" because you are off shift. You are, until your uniform comes off, on duty as far as the public is concerned. You a threat to the criminal and a source of protection to the public. "Any port in a storm" and all that. Keep this in mind when you go in.

        My company had a rule that extended "performance of duties" to convinence stores during or directly after our shift. If we were in a company vehicle, we were to remain armed at all times. Florida's 493 stated you had to disarm if "not in performance of duties" or not on "the client's site." Well, your performance of duties was driving that vehicle.

        Also, if your wearing an empty holster and walk into a robbery, all the bad guy is going to take note of is gun, badge, shoot!
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #5
          I'm gonna say it ONE MORE TIME. Using the "F" word with ---- IS NOT what the Forum Administrator meant when he asked us to keep it clean. Set the right example for the new members on this forum.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #6
            There are times when the word, included in a quotation, conveys the sense of urgency and purpose in a verbal command. Most of our field guys who have issued verbal commands will know exactly what the situation was when someone is giving verbal commands the Samuel L. Jackson way.

            Part of tactical communication is knowing both when to be nice, and when to be abusive and verbally intimidate the suspect. When the suspect is trying to kill a fellow officer, the tactical communication method should convey speed, shock, and maximum violence of action upon immediate failure to comply.
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
              There are times when the word, included in a quotation, conveys the sense of urgency and purpose in a verbal command. Most of our field guys who have issued verbal commands will know exactly what the situation was when someone is giving verbal commands the Samuel L. Jackson way.

              Part of tactical communication is knowing both when to be nice, and when to be abusive and verbally intimidate the suspect. When the suspect is trying to kill a fellow officer, the tactical communication method should convey speed, shock, and maximum violence of action upon immediate failure to comply.
              I'm not faulting you for the way you handled the situation. I understand what you mean. Nevertheless, your experience can be posted w/o using a format that leaves little to the imagination. Even if it is simply -------, we get the idea.

              When new members see the way senior members post, they will copy our example, good or bad. So far, we have been able to keep this site as an example of what professionalism means. When you compare this site with O.com, it's clear to see that this site is to be preferred. If you can support me on this, we can keep it going.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Security
                If the robbers saw your uniform while you were getting gas, they probably would have waited for you to leave. If you walked in on the robbery, it might have gotten ugly. If I interrupted a robbery, I would immediately show my hands, tell them I am unarmed, and cooperate. Dead heroes can't help anyone.
                I agree, if you walk in on them, cooperate and be a good witness later. Would you try and follow them when they left? I don't mean high speed pursuit, but at a distance calling 911 with the location and direction of travel.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                  There are times when the word, included in a quotation, conveys the sense of urgency and purpose in a verbal command. Most of our field guys who have issued verbal commands will know exactly what the situation was when someone is giving verbal commands the Samuel L. Jackson way.

                  Part of tactical communication is knowing both when to be nice, and when to be abusive and verbally intimidate the suspect. When the suspect is trying to kill a fellow officer, the tactical communication method should convey speed, shock, and maximum violence of action upon immediate failure to comply.
                  A old veteran range officer once told me that if you ever have to pull your weapon on a high risk suspect, scream and swear at him like a madman. He may actual think your nuts enough to really want to shoot him.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by T202
                    I agree, if you walk in on them, cooperate and be a good witness later. Would you try and follow them when they left? I don't mean high speed pursuit, but at a distance calling 911 with the location and direction of travel.
                    In a company vehicle? No. In my POV? Absolutely.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                      If you walk in on a robbery, you're going to have an issue really fast. Most people don't see anything but the uniform and badge.

                      There were steps that I was taught to parking and entering a structure in uniform to minimize the amount of problems you'd have inside it from this sort of thing. I use them to this day.

                      1. Park away from the doors. This creates a distance gap between the doors and you, allowing you time to survey the scene, and if necessary, react to a situation.

                      2. Size up the situation in the store before you get out. Look inside the windows. Is there a problem in the store? Are all the shutters closed? How many people are in it? What are they doing? This prevents you from walking in blind.

                      3. Remember you are a uniformed officer, a symbol of lawful authority before you get out. Do not lower your guard or "color condition" because you are off shift. You are, until your uniform comes off, on duty as far as the public is concerned. You a threat to the criminal and a source of protection to the public. "Any port in a storm" and all that. Keep this in mind when you go in.

                      My company had a rule that extended "performance of duties" to convinence stores during or directly after our shift. If we were in a company vehicle, we were to remain armed at all times. Florida's 493 stated you had to disarm if "not in performance of duties" or not on "the client's site." Well, your performance of duties was driving that vehicle.

                      Also, if your wearing an empty holster and walk into a robbery, all the bad guy is going to take note of is gun, badge, shoot!
                      It doesn't go away either. Retired three years ago and I still look in the windows before going in the store. Go out to eat and sit with my back against the wall, drives my wife nuts.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I only sit in the corners with my back against the wall. It drives my girlfriend nuts. I showed this to her, and she's like, "Oh, good, other people are driven nuts too."
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by T202
                          It doesn't go away either. Retired three years ago and I still look in the windows before going in the store. Go out to eat and sit with my back against the wall, drives my wife nuts.
                          I stay away from gas stations and fast food restaurants when it's about closing time. I also sit as close to an exit as possible so that I can "split" if I see a potential robbery coming. I want to avoid the nightmare situation of being forced to lie facedown on the floor not knowing whether the robber intends on doing more than just cleaning out the cash register.
                          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mr. Security
                            In a company vehicle? No. In my POV? Absolutely.
                            Following someone in a company vehicle is basically a low-speed pursuit. The only time I suggest this is if something really bad has happened (such as a murder or forcible felony you personally observed or have probable cause to believe the actor is the person you're following) and you are the only person who knows where the suspect is. You have 911 on the speakerphone or your dispatcher does, and you're calling it out on the air or to 911 as a pursuit.

                            At that point, you have to do the same thing a pursuing officer does. Pursue to maintain visual contact with the suspect vehicle, while ensuring that the safety of the public is not jeapordized.

                            I knew a guy who pulled up onto a burglary during mobile patrol, in Saint Petersburg (Florida). He was in a marked patrol vehicle. They brandished a weapon at him, then fled. As they were driving like madmen to get away from the company supervisor, the supervisor was calling 911 on speakerphone. SPPD requested that he follow the car. He did, no lights, normal speeds. The suspect vehicle started running reds to evade chase, and the PD supervisor advised dispatchers to have the patrol car turn on its overheads and "keep up with the car, don't lose it till you get a tag." Old SPPD trick, "We don't pursue. We accelerate to get a tag number. It might take awhile, though."

                            So, you have this BG running 55 MPH (normal speed of traffic) in a 35 (Which nobody obeys), running red lights. People kinda figured out its time to stop when they saw amber/white lights going off everywhere.

                            SPPD finally got the two suspects after they bailed from the car and were chased down by the supervisor and SPPD. The PD supervisor suggested to our patrol supervisor that they install a digital air horn to warn motorists as well as help SPPD find the car.

                            We would of been crucified if we'd done that in a city to the north, and lauded if we did it in a city across the bay. Goes to show you how sometimes, the police will enjoy the fact that private citizen's aren't bound by police policy. No pursuit policy? That only applies to SPPD.

                            The second you follow someone in a marked company vehicle, or even an unmarked, you just became a pursuing officer attempting to make an arrest. You have to be extremely careful - all the liability concerns of a police pursuit apply to you! If the suspect drives crazy, and all you're doing is following him, they still might consider it a "pursuit" and try to go after you civilly.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              .......
                              The second you follow someone in a marked company vehicle, or even an unmarked, you just became a pursuing officer attempting to make an arrest. You have to be extremely careful - all the liability concerns of a police pursuit apply to you! If the suspect drives crazy, and all you're doing is following him, they still might consider it a "pursuit" and try to go after you civilly.
                              Exactly. My company would fire me in a heartbeat if I used their vehicle in such a situation. "Here's your medal of valor. Incidentally, you're FIRED!"
                              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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