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  • #31
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    I've become more attuned to joint manipulation than pain compliance, mainly from seeing stuff at SPE and MMA practitioners. The good part is, it does not matter if a pressure point does not work on the target, the human joints are nearly identical on everyone. The general population is not able to defeat a fulcrum'ed arm bar, or another form of joint lockup. They may be free to strike at you while doing it, but at least one limb is immobilized, and is a leverage point for sweeps and throws.

    Downside: you have to practice this stuff. Consistantly.
    The key success to getting joint locks and take-downs to work, to place the opponent in a position of submission, is to have a sense of the person's balance. Most will not go down to the ground if in a stable position, especially if the person is heavier (90% of the time in my case). Feeling out where the center of gravity is will let you know which method to employ and when.
    "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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    • #32
      Originally posted by Ten32
      That's great! ...But you might get sued for scaring the living heck out of him.
      You have a point, and with my good fortune, the guy would probably have a cardiac event. I can see the headline now:

      Guard threatens man with a tracheotomy; has heart attack!
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #33
        Originally posted by 1stWatch
        The key success to getting joint locks and take-downs to work, to place the opponent in a position of submission, is to have a sense of the person's balance. Most will not go down to the ground if in a stable position, especially if the person is heavier (90% of the time in my case). Feeling out where the center of gravity is will let you know which method to employ and when.
        True. Part of the joint lock must be bringing the person off balance. The natural reaction to push or pull against someone grabbing you can come into play here. But, if they have a stable footing, and you don't, the BG isn't being taken down -- you are.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #34
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
          True. Part of the joint lock must be bringing the person off balance. The natural reaction to push or pull against someone grabbing you can come into play here. But, if they have a stable footing, and you don't, the BG isn't being taken down -- you are.
          To get a person off balance when starting a joint lock technique our defensive tactics teach the officer to use a knee strike to the Common Peronal Nerve Motor Point on the outer leg (the most common place available to strike). This accomplishes two things - 1) mental distraction to resisting the joint lock and 2) motor dysfunction to the leg causing balance displacement to overcoming physical resistence to the technique. Hitting that nerve motor point will usually cause the person to collapse downward - making the rest of the technique with the takedown that much easier for the officer.
          "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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          • #35
            Originally posted by aka Bull
            To get a person off balance when starting a joint lock technique our defensive tactics teach the officer to use a knee strike to the Common Peronal Nerve Motor Point on the outer leg (the most common place available to strike). This accomplishes two things - 1) mental distraction to resisting the joint lock and 2) motor dysfunction to the leg causing balance displacement to overcoming physical resistence to the technique. Hitting that nerve motor point will usually cause the person to collapse downward - making the rest of the technique with the takedown that much easier for the officer.
            That method is what we call "mixing up the computer" in kickboxing groups. The idea is to use a low level attack on the shin or peroneal nerve as a distraction to make the opponent's focus shift to that in order to make an opening on the upper body. The key here when applying a grappling hold is to be able to feel the other person's sense of balance while applying the hold, while in physical contact, which is also known as "sensitivity". Each person's resistance varies a bit, so successful off-balancing varies. If the person doesn't have an over-commitment of balance to one leg or the other it will be difficult to take the person down.
            "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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            • #36
              In our hospital we use basic "pain compliance" techniques. Most discussed in the prior posts (wrist locks, arm bars).

              Like many others on this site, the added dynamic is the fact that most of our clients are crack/meth heads that go snake whenever you approach. Half the work is getting into a non-threatening position so you can "lay the smack down".

              Our officers are constantly training/upgrading their self defense either by what is offered by the company or most out of self interest outside of work. The key is staying sharp when not having to use this part of your skillset for awhile and then having to put it into play within seconds of being involved in an incident (Code White in hospital code).
              ========================================
              Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out! - Unknown

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              • #37
                Originally posted by aphilpot
                ..... The key is staying sharp when not having to use this part of your skillset for awhile and then having to put it into play within seconds of being involved in an incident (Code White in hospital code).
                I am one of our departments defensive tactics instructors. We teach our officers to spend that drive to work, or when standing around with nothing to do, to visiualize different tactics we teach, be it a brachial stun, getting a person into a transport wrist lock, whatever...to move those tactics from your long term memory (your hard drive so to speak) into short term memory (ram), which decreases reaction time - vital since we all know it takes longer to react than to act.

                I personally review my most common moves on my drive in, get them fresh into my mind.
                "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by aka Bull
                  I am one of our departments defensive tactics instructors. We teach our officers to spend that drive to work, or when standing around with nothing to do, to visiualize different tactics we teach, be it a brachial stun, getting a person into a transport wrist lock, whatever...to move those tactics from your long term memory (your hard drive so to speak) into short term memory (ram), which decreases reaction time - vital since we all know it takes longer to react than to act.

                  I personally review my most common moves on my drive in, get them fresh into my mind.
                  Great idea Bull. I will mention that to my crew at our next staff meeting. I always preach to keep "practicing" but it certainly doesn't hurt to play it over in your mind sometimes to keep fresh.
                  ========================================
                  Keep an open mind, but not so open that your brain falls out! - Unknown

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                  • #39
                    MK-IV Pepperspray! All I need.

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