Bouncer

[Shell Answer Man]

The term "bouncer" presents an image of ex-football players who look intimidating and break up fights and throw out drunks and undesirable patrons. Bouncers are often portrayed in movies as tough, thug-like scrappers who love to fight as in the movie "Road House" with Patrick Swayze and Sam Elliott. Unfortunately many nightclubs foster that image by hiring ex-jocks or bodybuilders to handle their security needs. Many of these bouncers have little experience and receive no real training. In a crisis, inexperienced bouncers will be forced to rely on their brawn and physical instincts to solve a problem. This is a scary and dangerous concept which potentially can expose a club to damaging liabilities. Hiring experienced and well-trained security personnel can mean the difference between a smooth and profitable operation and losing the business in a lawsuit.

[[[[SIW Editor's Note: Shell Answer Man borrows liberally from Chris McGoey's description of the modern "bouncer". Credit needs to be given where credit is due. Please enjoy McGoey's original assessment of the roles of the bouncer in his informative article here: http://crimedoctor.com/nightclub1.htm ]]]

[davis002]

This reminds me of a story from last year. A "bouncer" at the Red Carpet Bar in St Cloud, MN was charged with manslaughter in the death of a patron who was kicked out of the bar, and attempted to force his way back into the bar. Evidentally, the bouncer denied entrance and physically restrained the unruly patron. How do you ask? According to witness statements, the bouncer "laid on top" of the unruly patron with his face down until the police arrived. In doing so, he basically suffocated the patron by restricting oxygen to the brain resulting in the patron going into a coma and dying after 19 days on life support. I believe that the bouncer had the right intention, that being control the patron until PD arrives to take custody for disorderly conduct or something of that nature. What the bouncer lacked was the proper training to realize that his method of laying on top of the unruly patron could result in further injury, in this case death.

I know of a particular, well-known Minneapolis nightclub that typically hires the "road house" types, gives them little/no training, throws them in a flashy suit, and allows them to go at it. Shell Answer Man knows very well what nightclub i'm referring to

[N. A. Corbier]

Reminds me of a confrontation at an "affulent" but "notorious" nightclub in Tampa that my former employer had been hired to provide armed security officers for. The city made the club, as a stipulation of a permit, hire off-duty police officers for security. The club, in turn, hired the company because they didn't want to pay 47.00 per hour per officer - and the police wanted two officers with cruisers.

The city agreed that third party armed uniformed security was acceptable. So, here's the fun part.

The Operations Manager was told it was a Jazz club. Myself and Ofc. Green are tapped to work this assignment. We ask about the club, and Ofc. Green immediately places it as a gangsta rap club.

We get out there, find ourselves in the middle of a TPD vs. TPD turf war - one black officer was authorizing people to park on the sides of the street, when he was called away, a white officer would come up and issue citations to everyone. We were allowed to move our vehicle after the TPD officer recongized us. The media (Two radio stations) and patrons were not so lucky. We took the ticket anyway, for documentation purposes.

The club had a contingent of 10 bouncers. Large, unarmed, wearing "SECURITY" T-Shirts. None of them were carrying flashlights, for that matter, in a dark bar. As the TPD officer started ticketing a block away, we informed one of the bouncers on the door that the Tampa Police Department is ticketing peoople.

Within 10 minutes, two bouncers come out and start yelling about how we're not paid to ticket cars. The bouncers were unable to distinguish us from the Tampa Police Department - even though our patches and shields are completely different, and we're standing next to a car that says "EXCELSIOR DEFENSE" in 8 inch print on it.

so, we go inside after the club closes to secure the payment. The bouncers get into Ofc. Green's face. Ofc. Green was from Atlanta, and had some intersting tattoos under his uniform shirt. So, while being able to talk the talk ATL-style, he was professional and informed the bouncers to back up, etc.

The bouncers were ready to jump him, gun or not, when I finally pulled out a can of Sabre Red and yelled, "Next person who takes a step goes to the hospital, then jail." This brought the owner, who was wondering what was going on, and the head of the bouncer contingent. The bouncer contingent said something that was absolutely true, and absolutely amusing:

"What you all fighting these security officers for? This boy's ready to shoot you, and this other one looks like he'll kick all ya'll ass. Read ya own damn shirts, ya fools. It says SECURITY. You no better than them."

We declined to take the contract.

[Shell Answer Man]

N. A. Corbier, that was very nice

I think most would agree that nightclub security is not an easy job. You work in an environment where you face difficult situations. You deal with people who are unruly and intoxicated on a nightly basis. You often have to make split second decisions as to whether a potential patron would cause trouble inside or would cause discomfort for other customers. It is quite incredible that security personal in the nightclub industry receive no training, for the most part, to equip them to carry out their duties responsibly and deal with such tense situations without resorting to violence. I think the problem with nightclub security is, there is very little standardization or certification process in this field. To be effective, in this field you need professional training on how to manage and control crowds, how to spot a fake ID, CPR, first aid ect??????..

[N. A. Corbier]

N. A. Corbier, that was very nice

I think most would agree that nightclub security is not an easy job. You work in an environment where you face difficult situations. You deal with people who are unruly and intoxicated on a nightly basis. You often have to make split second decisions as to whether a potential patron would cause trouble inside or would cause discomfort for other customers. It is quite incredible that security personal in the nightclub industry receive no training, for the most part, to equip them to carry out their duties responsibly and deal with such tense situations without resorting to violence. I think the problem with nightclub security is, there is very little standardization or certification process in this field. To be effective, in this field you need professional training on how to manage and control crowds, how to spot a fake ID, CPR, first aid ect??????..

Alas, there's nothing requiring an owner of a nightclub or "establishment with a predominant amount of total sales from alcohol" from requiring anything more than a large guy with a t-shirt on. The owner may understand the dynamics of a bar, and seek to have a professional staff who's capable of managing people - not roughing people up and throwing them out, but by and by...

"I run a bar, not a security company."

[DMS 525]

Making reference to the movie "Road House" may be a little off the track; first thing Dalton did was get rid of the hotheads and dope peddlers, then stressed on how to handle a situation without making a big issue out if it. Something I've known for a long time; you can do your job without being a royal jerk.

I've told off some bad club "bouncers" in the past, and praised the good ones for doing their jobs in a professional manner.

My main forte for about the last 5 years I worked security here was keeping order at a restaurant/bar which was mainly patronized by Mexicans. I've seen my share of brawls, have had to send a few head over heels out the door or to jail, and have had to draw my weapon on more than one occasion(uniformed contract security). However, I always used only the least amount of force required, and was able to talk down or otherwise defuse a lot of situations before they got out of hand. I earned the respect of a lot of regulars there.

With so many incidents involving "bouncers" using excessive force which results in serious injuries or deaths, I see a lot of cities requiring bars, etc. to have to have their club security attend some sort of class to learn how to do their job in a more professional manner, and use appropriate force in dealing with unruly patrons. Otherwise, the liability insurance will be outrageous. Big, strong goons may look intimidating, but so many of them are dumber than a stump, and serve to make the problem worse all too often.

Another problem I had to deal with all too often were employees of the place who made the situation worse than it had to be, with their smart mouths and poor attitudes. Got more than one of those fired, or at least chewed out by the boss. Point I stressed was that we had enough problems come along on their own accord that we didn't need them starting anything, and if a customer was annoying them, then it was time to bring it to the attention of Security, rather than try to take matters into their own hands.

That short time I was employed by that idiotic casino here, we did recieve some training in T.I.P.S.(Training In Prevention Services). I feel this should be mandatory for anywhere the booze is sold or consumed. Pretty in-depth training for dealing with drunks and other unruly patrons.

If a lot of bar owners had any brains at all, they'd do all they can to keep their liabilities down. That's only common sense.

*Already thinking up an outline/scenario for a course for bar/club security.*

[Taser]

I have to go close a bar at 0200 every night. The basic idea is to have an armed, uniformed presence at the bar to make sure all of the patrons leave and the bartenders can lock the place up safely. They had a bouncer who was about 23 who was frequently drunk himself by the time I got there. He tried to be all friendly with me but after a few nights he realized I wasn't impressed by his behavior. The owner of the bar didn't seem to care that this guy was drunk.

He got canned eventually though, now they don't even bother having a bouncer. They just call us or the police if they have an unruly customer.

[ACP01]

The only real problem I ever had with a bouncer was in Ft Laudedale...
I was getting a little loud and felt a tap on my shoulder when I turned around I bumped my forehead on the guys belt buckle and I was standing up!
That was one big ole boy there.

[Mr. Security]

The only real problem I ever had with a bouncer was in Ft Laudedale...
I was getting a little loud and felt a tap on my shoulder when I turned around I bumped my forehead on the guys belt buckle and I was standing up!
That was one big ole boy there.

Offer to buy him a drink?

[ACP01]

No but

I sure quietened down.

Seriously,the guy looked like he was about 7 feet tall and well over 300 lbs.
I just knew he was gonna bouce me like a basketball.

[ozsecuritychic]

in australia you have to have a 1c licence,first aid cert,rsa and sometimes a rcg.even at rock concerts ect if alcohol is served rsa is required.

[N. A. Corbier]

in australia you have to have a 1c licence,first aid cert,rsa and sometimes a rcg.even at rock concerts ect if alcohol is served rsa is required.

Now you get to go through each acronym that is used only in your country, identify it, and explain what it means, so that we understand what you are trying to convey.

First Aid Cert is obvious, at least.

To me, RSA is an encryption standard used in computer cryptography. You have to have a encryption standard?

[ozsecuritychic]

rsa responsible service of alcohol rcg responsible conduct gambling.my license is a 1 abc a=cash in transit,static guarding c=crowd control b=bodyguarding.im glad you didnt get what i was saying cause i dont get most of what you guys say i know lp and pd things like that but not some of the other things.