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  • SecTrainer
    I can't see the "bladed stance", i.e. one foot back and a slight turn to the side - in and of itself - as being in any way confrontational. Nor do I think an officer needs to be concerning himself with "proper" positioning for CCTV cameras. Certainly, camera identification is not an issue where the officer is concerned, and cameras could be anywhere in many facilities. The officer's sole focus should be the subject he is dealing with and/or any other "players" in the immediate vicinity...not camera angles! Perhaps we should have him drop by Makeup and Props before he engages the subject(s)? What about audio...have him do a voice check, maybe? "1 - 2 - 3 - testing...mee-mee-mee-mee-meeee...1 - 2 - 3...."

    To me, it is the whole sequence of approach and engagement (demeanor, including what the officer says, and how he says it, personal space invasion, etc.), that either is or is not "confrontational". Some might consider the "frontal" approach even more confrontational than the bladed stance, in fact. I teach the bladed stance, and variants including the buffer zone that can be created by a clipboard held with the "weak" hand toward the subject, etc., and will continue to do so. I also teach techniques/exercises to lessen the differentiation between "weak" hand and "strong" hand. Ideally, there should be no such thing.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-25-2007, 12:38 PM.

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  • jmaccauley
    Returning to the theme of de-escalation, it should be noted that the premise is usually a situation that is already underway. Unlike the doorman/bouncer who strikes a menacing pose at the front of a business, de-escalation is a way of calming or diffusing a situation rather than reacting to an aggressive action. MOAB and similar courses often involve low-level force responses and of course, are considered safer for the officer involved. There is also a corporate liability consideration. The Verbal Judo type models also offer a partial solution to de-escalating some of these confrontations before they get out of control. More desirable would be a combination of skills which also involve reading body language and a strong awareness level. There are few programs that address all three areas and most of us in the training arenas can attest to the fact that experience and maturity play a very important role.

    If interested, please visit and contribute your thoughts on this subject at

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  • NRM_Oz
    Ahhhhhhh I see - we were taught it as as BFF - or "Best Foot Forward" giving the smallest target for attack and have room to move and deflect any attack. Yeah you are right with the recent changes that some meatheads will slip through the industry but with more and more licences being rejected, there has to be some sort of change for the good with the industry. However with the "head wobblers" happy to work 15 hour shifts on a flat $10.00 US / hr the good will leave and the crap will stay longer.

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  • Maelstrom
    Sorry that should've read as bladed stance (singular not collective)

    The model of tuition has moved away from ensuring the smallest portion of your body facing a potential opponent (bladed) to a 'fully front on' (open) stance as it's perceived as less aggressive (and CCTV friendly)

    Recent changes in regulation of SO/CC certification/training & upgrades (Cert II -> III) should help alleviate the industry of those 'roided-up meatheads, though undoubtedly some will slip through toning down their attitudes & big mouths long enough to give the training organisation (and RTO's) their 'best party face'

    BTW 'how-green-was-my-cactus' do a wonderful rendition of Pauline (as well as other political celebrities) ROTFLMAO

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  • NRM_Oz
    "Bladed stances" ? As Pauline would say ........ "please explain ?"

    Should this include meatheads on `roids wearing their skin tight sisters t-shirts with a mobile phone stuck to their ears whilst they earn their $15.00 an hour flat rate on a door with equally intelligent other special ed employees ?

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  • Maelstrom
    I remember the Star City Casino Incident, that combined with certain events in Victorian nightclubs led to the alteration of physical combative technique training (primarily the removal of bladed stance) for unarmed SOs here

    Personally, I'm against any workplace policy that restricts options when endeavouring to provide/maintain a safe work place...
    Last edited by Maelstrom; 10-22-2007, 08:22 AM. Reason: typo

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  • NRM_Oz
    Agreed - there has to be SOME scope for minor infractions and the number of unfair dismissal cases in our Industrial Relations Courts is growing through aggressive HR zealots.

    As I learnt from the early years of security that a bit of BS chat with a mental health patient, an alcohol or drug affected person or just someon who has lost mental / emotional control can go along way. They go home safe and you get to go home to your loved ones. Here is a classic example:

    In 1998 7 Casino Security Thugs in Sydney, Australia, pounced on an agressive / intoxicated large male as he was being escorted from the premises with his equally agressive brother. His death resulted from affixia where his arms and legs were pinned behind his back as his chest was forced into the concrete floor and eventually stopped breathing. The victim was aggressive, smart mouth, intoxicated and creating a scene as he was escorted out but as when they reached the foyer, a huge fight broke out and something like 20 security thugs were now involved with CCTV showing some of the thugs, ripping their ties and jackets off to join in the fight 1 clown dancing like a boxer and about 7 idiots on top of the victim. It was a day I was ashamed to be part of the security industry in my state.

    Here is a brief news article of a settlement last year.
    Last edited by NRM_Oz; 10-20-2007, 06:10 AM.

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  • SecTrainer
    As admirable as the objectives of "zero tolerance" policies usually are, there have been some real problems with such policies from a legal standpoint. For starters, such policies tend to paint the organization into a corner with respect to the ability to exercise different options in addressing what will undoubtedly be a wide variety of incidents...or else, if the organization strays one millimeter away from its ZTP, it becomes liable for all kinds of lawsuits resulting from "differential" or "preferential" treatment. ZTP's have led companies into the trap of having to fire people for relatively minor offenses that only "technically" meet certain criteria, or be liable to lawsuit by others who have been fired.

    Someone (preferably corporate counsel) might want to research this question in relationship to case law that would be applicable to your legal system.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-19-2007, 12:52 PM.

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  • crankloud
    policy part 2 (damn 10000 character limit)

    Mental Health Patient Transport Risk Control Plan
    Dept: ……………………………………………………….
    Patient Name
    Date …..../…..../….…
    Form to be completed by the Nurse in charge in consultation with treatment team Appendix 2. Mental Health Transport Risk Control Plan

    REASON FOR TRANSPORT: __________________________________________________ ___________________

    VOLUNTARY OR INVOLUNTARY: __________________________________________________ ________________

    TRANSPORT FROM: __________________________TRANSPORT TO: ____________________________________

    APPROXIMATE LENGTH OF JOURNEY (TIME): ________________________________________

     Ambulance
     Patient transport Vehicle
     Hospital Vehicle
     Police Vehicle
     Security Officer escort ( please circle 1 or 2)  Police escort  Nurse escort  Driver

     Delirium  Withdrawal  Acute psychosis  Intoxication  Stable

    Physical Health: __________________________________________________ __________________________

    Current Medication: __________________________________________________ _______________________
    __________________________________________________ _________________________________________

    RISK  Absconding  To self  Risk to others  Verbal Aggression  Physical Aggression
    Chemical Restraint  Yes Drug/dose/ time __________________________________________________
     No
     For further medication the medication chart is to be taken with the patient.
    Physical Restraint
     No
     Yes. Where restraint is used the Physical restraint Intervention and Observation record is to be completed.

    Further patient needs
     Meals  Toileting  Drinking water  Book/Magazine  NRT

     Checklist completed
     Mobile telephone
     Cab vouchers as required
     Minimum 2 staff
     To reduce need to stop during transport the vehicle is to be full of fuel and vehicle mechanically sound.
     Patient to sit in the back seat behind front passenger
     Child locks on doors and window locks on
     Staff members sits in back next to patient behind driver
     Seat belts applied
     Staff call hospital supervisor when leaving hospital with ETA
     Staff call hospital supervisor on arrival
     Physical and chemical restraint applied as ordered by Medical Officer
     On return trip inform the hospital supervisor of ETA

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  • crankloud
    One of our policies

    Policy Number: TG.05.012
    The NSW Health Taskforce on the Prevention and Management of Violence in the Health Workplace has adopted a zero tolerance response to all forms of violence by any person towards any other person on health service premises, or towards any NSW Health staff working in the community. Circular 2003/48 Zero Tolerance Response to Violence in the NSW Health Workplace and Circular 2003/50 NSW Health Training Program A Safer Place to Work: Preventing and Managing Violent Behaviour in the Health Workplace have been developed for implementation by all Health Services and gives practical guidance in the requirements as expected by the Department.

    ---- recognizes the impact that violence has on the provision of health services and the staff who provides and manages the delivery of these services. It is this recognition that drives the support and momentum of to implement a Zero Tolerance approach to workplace violence. In order for the--- zero tolerance response to be successful, every manager and staff member needs to recognise and acknowledge that violence is unacceptable and that NSW Health is committed to addressing this issue. Crucial to the success of creating a zero tolerance culture is the active elimination of internal violence and bullying. It is very difficult for staff to take the zero tolerance response to violence seriously if internal violence and bullying is ignored. All Executive and Departmental Managers are to actively implement the NSW Health circular 2001/109 Joint Management and Employee Association Policy Statement on Bullying, Harassment and Discrimination.

    In order for ---- to comply with the requirements of Circular 2003/48 Zero Tolerance Response to Violence in the NSW Health Workplace there is a requirement to plan for and maintain an environment that promotes security for staff. This is known as crime prevention through environmental design. This will include ensuring:
    • Adequate means of access control
    • Appropriate signage indicating the Zero Tolerance Approach.
    • Camera surveillance and design, which allows for natural surveillance to occur.
    • Systems which provide information to clients so as to reduce the likelihood of patients and visitors exerting frustration towards staff due to issues such as wait times.
    • Adequate lighting
    • Immediate short term response options are available to staff, and
    • Long terms options are assessed and implemented.

    For further guidance on crime prevention strategies please refer to chapter 7 of Circular 2003/48 Zero Tolerance Response to Violence in the NSW Health Workplace frame work and policy guidelines.

    The Aggressive Patient Risk Assessment and Control Plan (Appendix 1) can be utilized to consider options for patient care, which includes a log sheet for identifying trends in episodes. An transport risk assessment and control sheet is also provided for guidance in Appendix 2.

    • Issue a verbal warning (violent patient or visitor)
    • Using verbal de-escalation and distraction techniques
    • Seeking support form other staff
    • Requesting the aggressor leave
    • Requesting review by a clinician
    • Retreat to a safer area
    • Utilising NSW Health clinical restraint policies as appropriate
    • Utilising NSW sedation policies as appropriate
    • Negotiating conditional treatment, or determining inability to treat under the current circumstances
    • Initiating internal emergency response in line with local protocols, eg security, duress response team
    • Initiating external emergency response in line with local protocols, eg external security services, police

    • Formal patient management plans. The ---------- or --------- staff may assist with developing plan. Refer to the Clinical Reference Manual.
    • Written warnings
    • Conditional patient treatment agreements
    • Exclusion from visits
    • Conditional visiting rights
    • Patients alerts
    • Alternative treatment arrangements
    • Formal recognition of inability to treat in certain circumstances
    • Apprehended violence orders (AVO’s) to protect staff
    • Request police attend to investigate any criminal charges.

    • Post incident support
    • Incident reporting
    • Incident investigation
    • Operational review and debrief


    Staff members who are victims of work related violence must have confidence in the legal justice systems. Staff is to be supported by management during the legal process. The legal options available following serious threat, attempted and actual violence include:

    • Requesting police to investigate to proceed with Criminal Charges
    • Requesting the police or Magistrate to issue an Apprehended Violence Order AVO


    7.1 MANAGERS

    Managers are responsible for ensuring that staff are appropriately trained (attend zero tolerance training) and equipped to enable them to respond promptly, consistently and appropriately to effectively manage violent incidents if they do occur, and as far as possible, to prevent their recurrence.

    Managers must know and exercise their responsibilities in relation to preventing and managing violence, and encourage and support appropriate staff responses consistent with the NSW Health Department Zero Tolerance Policy.


    Staff must comply with local violence prevention policies and strategies, report all violent incidents, know their options when confronted with violence, exercise them consistently and know that they will be appropriately supported in doing so.

    Adherence to the Code of Conduct will ensure professional behaviour, which may deter aggression occurring along with effective use of verbal tactics and body language.

    Staff must attend zero tolerance training as rostered.

    8.0 TRAINING

    • All staff must attend module 1 (1 day) and module 2 for high-risk staff (incorporated into day 1.)
    • All mangers must attend the Module 3 training course.
    Other clinical training sessions may include Dealing with Challenging Behaviours.
    • Training sessions are advertised and coordinated by the Learning and Development Department.


    The OHS Manager and the Security Team Leader will undertake a Security Audit annually in accordance using the Security Continuous Improvement Program and Security Improvement Assessment Tool. A report will be provided to Executive and the OHS Committee.

    A review of security incidents as they arise will also be used to identify opportunities for improvement.


    This policy will be evaluated by
    • Monitoring the implementation of the NSW Health Workplace and Circular 2003/50 NSW Health Training Program A Safer Place to Work
    • Ensuring Learning and Development offer three (3) of the above training sessions per year.
    • Monitoring of the reporting of aggression incidents on site and evaluating preventative actions put in place.

    A report will be provided to the OHS Committee in February of each year regarding the monitoring and evaluation of the Zero Tolerance Program.

    Edited for privacy reasons

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  • NRM_Oz
    A Mentor

    I was fortunate to work alongside a former Police Trained Hostage Negotiator who during our duties would conduct his own training with us on scenarios. How to assess a psyche of someone, how to assess their environment, what is their next move, what can set them off, what can be done to contain their anger, what can be achieved if you play chess and lose a rook to gain a knight ?

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  • SecTrainer
    Originally posted by john_harrington View Post
    Sec Trainer, You are correct!

    I had 2 people from my firm certified as MOAB trainers. They really got a lot out of it and it has been received well by most clients.
    When I did LE "administrative" investigations many years ago, there was very little in the way of awareness, let alone formal training, in methods of situation control such as we see now with "verbal judo", MOAB, etc.

    And yet, intuitively, we knew that there had to be certain principles at work in confrontational situations because we could almost always predict the ultimate outcome just by analyzing the very first few seconds of officer contact with the citizen. We just didn't have good ways to translate this knowledge into officer skills.

    Now we do have these methods, and every officer - public or private - should receive basic training in how your behavior and approach can establish - or lose - control of most situations, as well as skills in least-violent methods of dealing with the ones that get out of hand.

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  • john_harrington
    Sec Trainer, You are correct!

    I had 2 people from my firm certified as MOAB trainers. They really got a lot out of it and it has been received well by most clients.

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  • SecTrainer
    Originally posted by john_harrington View Post
    MOAB (management of aggressive behavior) is an EXCELLENT program. Not cheap, but worth it, IMHO.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 10-01-2007, 01:03 AM.

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  • john_harrington
    Here is another one

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