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  • FBI Analysis

    Yesterday, I picked up the latest copy of " The Police Marksman-Vol. XXXII. On page 5 there is a artical titled " 12 critical elements". The FBI completed a study of Officers Feloniously Killed from 1995-2004. (545 total killed)

    0-5 feet.......268 officers killed.........49%
    6-10 feet.....107 officers killed.........20%
    11-20 feet....65 officers killed..........12%

    TOTAL UNDER 7 YARDS......440 ........81%

    21-50 feet....47 officers killed...........8%
    50+ feet.......41 officers killed...........7%
    Distances no reported...17 officers.....3%

    TOTAL OVER 7 YARDS...105 officers killed...19%

    Folks....Be safe,

    Hank
    " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

  • #2
    That is a highly revealing study and one that brings up serious training issues. In all my training in the military, at the police academy, with the police department, and as armed security guard, virtually no time at all was spent on point shooting.

    The statistics listed above offer definitive proof that it is more important to be able to put lead on target in a quick and effective manner than to be an excellent shot. Yet the majority of training out there, though it may include fast draw practice, is centered around sight alignment (or at least "front sight press) and ignores point shooting.

    In my opinion, this oversight costs lives. What say you all?

    Dave
    David Tombleson
    Executive Security Manager
    Wy'east Tactical, LLC
    www.wyeasttactical.com

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by ptbeast View Post
      That is a highly revealing study and one that brings up serious training issues. In all my training in the military, at the police academy, with the police department, and as armed security guard, virtually no time at all was spent on point shooting.

      The statistics listed above offer definitive proof that it is more important to be able to put lead on target in a quick and effective manner than to be an excellent shot. Yet the majority of training out there, though it may include fast draw practice, is centered around sight alignment (or at least "front sight press) and ignores point shooting.

      In my opinion, this oversight costs lives. What say you all?

      Dave
      Without questioning the value of point shooting generally, I would only say that we would need to drill down to a little more detail on the specific incidents in order to analyze exactly how valuable it would have been. I would guess, for instance, that point shooting wasn't an option (or a good one) in a number of these incidents because the bad guy already got the drop on the cop.

      This happens frequently, for instance, in traffic-stop shootings because unless you have a good reason you can't just stroll up to traffic offenders with your gun drawn. The driver, however, can easily have a weapon ready and out-of-sight until you're already in the soup.

      It can happen in domestic situations, also. You walk into the living room and the guy casually sitting there on the sofa suddenly pulls a piece out from between the cushions. Again, without good cause you can't walk into people's homes with your weapon drawn. As much as we teach good procedure, it's impossible to completely eliminate the bad guy's advantage of surprise.

      Close-quarters training, both armed and unarmed, should certainly be emphasized more than it is. I'm only saying that I'm guessing that point shooting skills would not have come into play in quite a few of the shooting incidents we're talking about. A lot of cops are shot without having the chance to draw their weapons.
      "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

      "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

      "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

      "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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      • #4
        Regardless of weather you have a weapon or not, all ways have an escape route. Just incase. Those numbers are scary
        I'm the guy you don't want to be around when your doing something wrong, but you can't wait for me to get there when your down, to fix you up...

        If you don't stand behind our troops, feel free to stand in front of them.

        Comment


        • #5
          SecTrainer,

          You are right that point shooting may not have helped in many of these instances. There is a lot of detail in the report that is not posted here. For instance, the number of ambush situations (a low percentage) and the number of instances that the officer failed - for what ever reason - to draw their weapon (a significant percentage).

          I am not saying that point shooting is a panacea or that such training would have prevented the majority of the deaths. However, as the report shows, the vast majority of officer fatalities take place within seven yards of the assailant. In my training, both at the police academy and with the department (as well as the armed security training that I went though), the majority of the range time was spent on targets 10, 15, even 20 yards out. Accuracy was what was stressed. My point is that this type training doesn't match the real world dangers that officers face every day. My personal experiences bear this up.

          In my opinion, and I believe the statistics contained in the FBI report support my position, a great deal more time needs to be spent on identifying a threat and quickly and efficiently getting rounds on target. This type of training is much more likely to prepare officers (both security and police) for real world situations than what is really little more than glorified target practice.

          Dave
          Last edited by ptbeast; 08-12-2007, 11:54 PM.
          David Tombleson
          Executive Security Manager
          Wy'east Tactical, LLC
          www.wyeasttactical.com

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ptbeast View Post
            SecTrainer,

            In my opinion, and I believe the statistics contained in the FBI report support my position, a great deal more time needs to be spent on identifying a threat and quickly and efficiently getting rounds on target. This type of training is much more likely to prepare officers (both security and police) for real world situations than what is really little more than glorified target practice.

            Dave
            Having been through two different state police academies and training on the private side myself, you'll get no argument from me on that, Dave, and I do think there is more emphasis being placed on this (close-quarters shooting) in many academies now than in the past.
            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

            Comment


            • #7
              I couldn't agree more! Train! Train!!! Train !!!!

              B safe,

              Hank
              " We are determined that before the sun sets on this terrible struggle, our flag will be recognized throughout the world as a symbol of freedom on one hand and of overwhelming force on the other" - General George C. Marshall

              Comment


              • #8
                definitely. This thread seems to be a giant testimonial to the value of the flash sight picture. And short range training in general.

                Of all the commissioned guards in my company, the only ones that even know terms like flash sight picture, double tap, or hammers are the ex LE/MIL officers. The rest don't seem to train at all it seems. Not even dry practice.

                Last time I requalled, another guard couldn't even get his wheelgun out of the holster because after 2 years of sitting in the holster, the humidity had firmly fused weapon and holster. scary that people's lives may depend on him.
                sigpicMy ideal security vehicle and uniforms:

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