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Fake ID Training (False, Fake, Altered ID's)

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  • Fake ID Training (False, Fake, Altered ID's)

    I am new here as I have stated couple times already, but I have already seen we have our share of "Doormen" NOT (Bouncers) on the site and that is close to my heart since that's how I started out back in the day! This thread could turn into a novel as did the last one I wrote on another site. A friend of mine "Bart-Man" and I felt that a thread like this could be a great source of accumulated info for anyone working a door at a club or bar.

    We can also touch on the liability for allowing minors to drink while you are on duty. I am sure everyone can share little from these home state. I have been lucky enough to work large college towns where you will see EVERY state in a matter of months pass before your eyes.

    What I would like to do is have additional posts by ONE STATE per post. In my option and experience this will be a lot easier to look at and read when your looking for info. Maybe include the state in your secondary subject line for your reply. I could be really anal and do it alphabetically, but I know that will never happen... So lets keep it neat and to the point.

    I have always classified the three most common "Fake Id's" as the following...

    "Class 1"= Not them (false identity)
    "Class 2"= Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
    "Class 3"= Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information, description, etc.)

    I will probably copy and paste some of my prior threads from another site to save me some typing.
    9
    They are VERY strict and we are spot checked regularly by LE...
    55.56%
    5
    Management could careless and nether does local LE...
    22.22%
    2
    We check the ID's to just follow the law, but a lot probably slip by...
    22.22%
    2
    Last edited by MiB Security; 04-26-2007, 05:54 PM.
    M E N in B L A C K
    Personal Security Svcs.

  • #2
    The bar inside my hotel is owned by an independant operator so we do not check ids.

    Montreal attracts a lot of 16 & 17 year olds because our drinking age is 18. We have a lot of ids in our lost & found that apparently were borrowed by the 16 & 17 year olds.
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by friend "Bart-Man" from other forum
      As mentioned, there are ultimately 3 forms of false ID's:

      1. Not them (false identity)
      2. Fake (completely manufactured as a counterfeit ID)
      3. Altered (a real DL or ID that has been physically changed to represent false information such as D.O.B., description, ect)

      I would definitely argue that one would see these false IDs coming at them in this very order, with a large degree of them being what we call, "not them". Thus, being able to identify someone's facial features, height and weight should be paramount. Yes, everyone thinks that's the easy part, but when you know how to spot a fake and a good altered, you are left with the only the this criteria. And I must say that since the ID is actually legit itself, if you can't tell a legit chin or hairline, ears, nose, birthmark, jaw line, eyes or smile, your screwed. This is exactly where I see some of the best technically trained door host lose their edge.

      Fake seems to be so easy to get after all this time. But by no means do I think I am infallible. I mean, how would I, or anyone else for that matter, actually KNOW if it's a very good fake if it didn't show the normal signs of a fake. Technology has proven that counterfeiters are definitely getting more savvy. This is the main reason why I thought such a broad thread, open to people from all over, would be so great. I 'm sure we are all pros, to some extent, in our own region.

      Altered: I have been AMAZED at how well some people have cut and pasted, re-typed, covered, maneuvered, and programmed information on actual real ID's. The pathetic ones are truly laughable. Yet the good ones are VERY hard to notice. Another reason that if a door host is not using a flashlight; he is not worth his weight in monkey-spit! DL from New Mexico, Arizona and British Columbia are by far some of the best altered ID's I have seems and I will discuss more in the thread. But thus far, the British Columbians have been the most impressive...
      M E N in B L A C K
      Personal Security Svcs.

      Comment


      • #4
        Its getting easier, and easier, to reasonably duplicate IDs, including the plastic ones with UV reactive holocote.

        I do love the method of making UV reactive holocote, though. It involves Tide, since Tide has a lot of UV boosters in it.

        When I was looking for a method of strengthening the security of company IDs, I started looking at how people fake IDs. The same inexpensive materials used to fake official IDs can make very good valid IDs on the cheap.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

        Comment


        • #5
          For those who may be interested, the Public Safety Institute, a division of the Institute of Police Technology and Management, which is run by the University of North Florida, will be holding their 4-day course on the subject of fraudulent & false identification documents from 9/17 to 9/20 in Altamonte Springs, FL.

          Here's a link to the course information: Fraudulent Documents Course Description

          ...and here's a link to the course flyer with registration form (it's a PDF file so you need the free Adobe Acrobat reader).

          As you will see, the course deals with ID ranging from Social Security cards to drivers licenses, military ID, INS documentation, the techniques for creating and/or altering them, and obviously how to spot the fakes.

          NOTE: Contrary to what the course description indicates, this course is NOT restricted to LE personnel only, although some of the material is geared toward enforcement issues.
          Last edited by SecTrainer; 04-27-2007, 03:17 AM.
          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

          Comment


          • #6
            My tools:

            FLASHLIGHT - Dual UV/WHITE
            http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=FL557
            +backup flashlights

            JEWLERS LOOP - For micro print

            DRIVERS LICENCE GUIDE - Anheuser Busch has a decent free one available

            Tips:
            -Talk to people, read their body language: are they nervous??
            -Don't get too caught up in checking to see if its a real ID, spend equally as much time making sure its the same person.
            -Take your time, be through
            -Are they trying to distract you??? Boobs all over you, asking about cover, asking about bottle service...
            -Err on the side of not letting them in
            -ALWAYS GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING

            Tips on FAKE CA IDs
            -All old versions should be expired by now
            -Check with UV light - 3 colored state flag across ID (red outline, brown bear, green grass)
            -Micro print on top line of "DMV" (reads California DMV)
            -Rounded edges (run your fingerprints over the edges, you shouldn't feel them)
            -No : after expires (expires 04-28-09) not (expires: 04-28-09)
            -numbers on the bottom can be decoded to see what DMV it came from
            -Should be very flexible, very hard to break
            Police Officer

            Experience: Bouncer, EMT, Theme Park Security, Money Transport, Armed Guard

            Comment


            • #7
              Chief's Supply, among others, has a very good Driver's License Identification Guide. It is "restricted to law enforcement agencies only," but can be sold to security companies who are licensed through the state.

              (Much like any "law enforcement only product," save for BATF regulated items like grenades and guns. You just ship those to a Firearms License holder with the proper stamps, and fill your Form 4s out.)
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

              Comment


              • #8
                On a side note, I have ordered things from Chief's Supply that has "POLICE" blasted all over it, no questions asked other than what my method of payment will be.
                "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                "The Curve" 1998

                Comment


                • #9
                  The state I live in anyone under 21 will get their licence in a vertical plane with a red back ground and when they turn 21 will get it in horizontal Plane. The 21 year old licence has a chemical that will destroy the licence should air get between the lamination.
                  THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                  THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                  http://www.boondocksaints.com/

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by dannyr619
                    [B]
                    -Check with UV light - 3 colored state flag across ID (red outline, brown bear, green grass)
                    I am looking at my OFFICAL State DL and i cant find te flag on it. It has all the other featrures though.
                    Robert
                    Here endith the lesson

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Interesting, they show a picture of a CA DL showing the tri-color flag in an ad for the Streamlight TwinTask.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by BHR Lawson
                        On a side note, I have ordered things from Chief's Supply that has "POLICE" blasted all over it, no questions asked other than what my method of payment will be.
                        http://www.driverslicenseguide.com/

                        Well I do know this company requires proof of why you would need their product. I am on there mailing list after a very long process of proving who I was and why I was buying their product! I had to speak with the owner and have him look at my company website and I used my company CC to pay for the invoice. This is a great product to training your beginner or less experienced personnel. This should be used as a tool for them to study so they may get them familiar with every state, but I do NOT recommend using it AT the door.

                        I just cringe when I see a doorman pull one out his pocket and start to compare a DL to the one in the book. If he still has to look he has no business being at the door alone. Not only is he going to be inefficient as an ID checker but he is going to be at the door with a huge line forming.

                        A experienced doorman should only need 5-8 seconds to spot an altered or manufactured ID. At that point if he needs further time its time to pull out the mind tricks and get them prove your right! When you check ID's for 8 hours straight and personnel look at 1500-2000 ID's in a single night you can't stand there with your ID guide folded in half in your rear pocket and try to study its too late they have already won!
                        M E N in B L A C K
                        Personal Security Svcs.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by dannyr619
                          My tools:

                          FLASHLIGHT - Dual UV/WHITE
                          http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=FL557
                          +backup flashlights
                          I have used that light, its "ok" for ID's thats about it. I prefer these...

                          http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=FL496

                          They are much more compact and you probably already have your favorite flashlight you like to carry that is ten times brighter and more useful. This you can drop into a shirt or coat pocket and grab it when you need it. A UV finger light is also very useful when working a door to keep your hands free for when they might be needed.
                          M E N in B L A C K
                          Personal Security Svcs.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by dannyr619
                            Tips:
                            -Talk to people, read their body language: are they nervous??
                            -Don't get too caught up in checking to see if its a real ID, spend equally as much time making sure its the same person.
                            -Take your time, be through
                            -Are they trying to distract you??? Boobs all over you, asking about cover, asking about bottle service...
                            -Err on the side of not letting them in
                            -ALWAYS GO WITH YOUR GUT FEELING
                            Very right Danny! Now that is an experienced doorman! Body language is HUGE! Will they not look you in the eye. Will they talk to their friends and try to pretend your not looking at them. I used to wait till they would finally stop talking talking, look at me and ask if there was a problem? Then I would reply "Ooo your ready to conduct business now?" As for those that argue with you when you know it’s fake, altered or not them. Their confidence can only be destroyed by how well you can convince them that you KNOW it’s false. Their persistence is often fueled by the aura of your uncertainty. You must BELIEVE in yourself and show it. Tell them also that you will push the issue onto LE and they will go to jail. If he/she leaves, no harm done. If they stay and continue to piss you off, you’ll take pleasure in seeing them go to jail. When I worked in Arlington, VA. The police where not big on arrest for Fake ID's, but they did love a good D.I.P. (drunk-n-public)

                            All of that said... You must only display the confidence when you have reached a level of not making mistakes. I have seen more REAL ID's taken from the REAL people by doorman that thought they were good and I have been called over from another club by police officer to help explain if the doorman was right or wrong. In allot cases they were not doing good business and the ID had been taken for no good reason.
                            M E N in B L A C K
                            Personal Security Svcs.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I am convinced that some fake ID is nearly flawless. Some counterfeit currency is so close to the real thing that it can take a technician to recognize it. If you aren't sure about an ID, call the agency that the visitor claims to represent. Don't use the telephone number on the ID. Get the number from another source just in case the guy's partner-in-crime is waiting on the other end of the phone to "verify" the ID. Of course, the scrutiny should be commensurate with the degree of security desired by the client.

                              Also, if you determine that the ID is fake, be prepared for a fight if the intruder intends to gain access at any cost. You may want to stall until the police arrive before you "show your cards."
                              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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