Dallas Security Officer Gunned Down

[1stWatch]

Dallas, TX:
A security officer named Henry Hernandez was shot in the chin and groin while escorting an irate person out of a plasma donation center in southeast Dallas who was turned away from making a donation. The suspect was arrested by police and the security officer is in the hospital in stable condition.

http://www.nbc5i.com/news/8058205/de...s=dfw&psp=news

[Mr. Security]

Why aggravated assault instead of attempted murder? Wonder what the charge would have been if it were a cop that was shot instead.

[Lawson]

Wonder what the charge would have been if it were a cop that was shot instead.

Probably 3 gunshot wounds to the Face.

[oldfart]

Lucky

I guess the guy is lucky to be alive at this point and that is a plus in my opinion. I also think the charges should be attempted murder.

[1stWatch]

Why aggravated assault instead of attempted murder? Wonder what the charge would have been if it were a cop that was shot instead.

According to its standard operating procedure, Dallas does not file "attempt" charges on people. It is a source of frustration for us to hear them say there's nothing they'll do when an armed robber kicks in someone's door but runs away ("attempted burglary") or if someone tries to steal a car but doesn't get away with it ("attempted unauthorized use of vehicle") or even fires weapons at people ("attempted murder"). The city also does not recognize a private citizen arrest, even though it is clearly outlined in the state law. The aggravated assault charge is just as good, though.

It is actually "aggravated assault with deadly weapon on public servant", a first degree felony. This is a greater felony than attempted murder. The charge of assault is the same now, since 2003, when committed on security as on police.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...0.htm#22.02.00

[1stWatch]

It should also be noted I believe this gentleman was unarmed. Since I have been to that place before several years ago, I can say I remember an unarmed guard walking around there. This brings me back to one of my chief complaints, of there being absolutely zero training given to security, especially in the unarmed sector which is more commonly used, in officer safety and conflict resolution.

Escorting an irate person out is a lot more dangerous of a situation than the average person would believe. It is clear to me the suspect was not patted down, therefore a weapon was not detected. A close proximity between the guard and the suspect was not maintained and there was no awareness of where the suspect's hands were.

If this person's orders were like most security guard post orders I've seen, if there were any at all, it said for him to simply tell someone to leave and then call the cops if they don't and it would prohibit him from touching or handcuffing the person. Hands off policies like these are what got this person hurt.

[Mr. Security]

......
If this person's orders were like most security guard post orders I've seen, if there were any at all, it said for him to simply tell someone to leave and then call the cops if they don't and it would prohibit him from touching or handcuffing the person. Hands off policies like these are what got this person hurt.

Actually, what got this guard shot was his failed attempt to escort the unwelcome party out of the facility. If he told this man to leave and he refused, he should have called the police and let them handle it. The police would have found the gun and commended the guard for requesting police assistance.

[1stWatch]

Actually, what got this guard shot was his failed attempt to escort the unwelcome party out of the facility. If he told this man to leave and he refused, he should have called the police and let them handle it. The police would have found the gun and commended the guard for requesting police assistance.

From what I gather of the situation, the man was already irate and embroiled with anger. In my position as an armed officer, I would have patted the individual down before taking further action. As an unarmed officer with the type of training I received, I would do the same thing; however, it seems to be a catch-22 situation where the client management is standing around this threatening individual while patients are lying down with catheters stuck in their arms. They want this person out "now". That place is a plasma donation center. They'll pay somebody $25 to donate several pints of plasma. A person is barred from donating if they are std positive, have been with a prostitute, or test positive for drugs. My bet is the guy not only tested positive for drugs, he was sky high on them.
Sure, you can call the police there, but in south Dallas don't expect them to show up before he starts shooting the place up. They're most likely working multiple disturbances just like it right around the corner, as well as a couple of murders, gang fights, rounding up drug dealers, or chasing stolen cars. Proactive force is often the only way to go in that city to remove someone from a building. A problem arises when that force is necessary and the person expected to do something is not trained in defensive tactics and is not equipped. Common sense and reasoning with the person won't cut it when faced with this situation.

[Mr. Security]

From what I gather of the situation, the man was already irate and embroiled with anger. In my position as an armed officer, I would have patted the individual down before taking further action. As an unarmed officer with the type of training I received, I would do the same thing; however, it seems to be a catch-22 situation where the client management is standing around this threatening individual while patients are lying down with catheters stuck in their arms. They want this person out "now"............... My bet is the guy not only tested positive for drugs, he was sky high on them.
Sure, you can call the police there, but in south Dallas don't expect them to show up before he starts shooting the place up.......

If this guy was threatening to hurt anyone and had tested positive for drug use, the guard needs to convey this to the dispatcher when he calls. In addition, telling the dispatcher that violence is imminent will ensure that the call is given priority. If the guard nonchalantly tells the dispatcher that he has a party on the premises that is refusing to leave and doesn't communicate the seriousness of the situation, then yes, the police may not arrive in time.

[1stWatch]

If this guy was threatening to hurt anyone and had tested positive for drug use, the guard needs to convey this to the dispatcher when he calls. In addition, telling the dispatcher that violence is imminent will ensure that the call is given priority. If the guard nonchalantly tells the dispatcher that he has a party on the premises that is refusing to leave and doesn't communicate the seriousness of the situation, then yes, the police may not arrive in time.

I see you've not had to work in south Dallas. Of course those details should be relayed correctly. Actually, police may show up within a reasonable period depending on their workload at the time. Keep in mind, however, that area has a very big problem with violent offenses. Very often they do not show up on time, no matter how well you articulate the call. I've had to call on similar incidents before and had to wait more than an hour or even two or three hours before they come strolling in.
This is what you get when the population of the city is around 1,200,000 and the police force only has 2,700 positions, of which roughly 2,400 are staffed.

[Mr. Security]

Are you telling me that if I dial 911 and tell dispatch that I have a man under the influence of drugs, possibly armed, and threatening violence at a Red Cross Center, that the police are going to take 30 min. to an hour to respond?

[N. A. Corbier]

If this guy was threatening to hurt anyone and had tested positive for drug use, the guard needs to convey this to the dispatcher when he calls. In addition, telling the dispatcher that violence is imminent will ensure that the call is given priority. If the guard nonchalantly tells the dispatcher that he has a party on the premises that is refusing to leave and doesn't communicate the seriousness of the situation, then yes, the police may not arrive in time.

Um, actually... I "conveyed a sense of urgency" to the 911 dispatcher during a shooting in progress, at which one point I was about >< close to engaging the suspects during the grid search.

Tampa Police responded in 1 hour, 27 minutes, and stated that they were "busy with calls, they couldn't get enough people out here." What they really did was call a 2 man car from South Tampa to come up to North Tampa to respond. Drive time: 35 minutes.

[N. A. Corbier]

Are you telling me that if I dial 911 and tell dispatch that I have a man under the influence of drugs, possibly armed, and threatening violence at a Red Cross Center, that the police are going to take 30 min. to an hour to respond?

Yes.

The police will
1) Not respond till they have 2-4 units ready to go.
2) Stage till all 4 units are nearby.
3) Discuss the situation.
4) Roll on scene in force.

This was the general SOP for Tampa Police when I worked in their jurisdiction. I'm pretty sure that's normal for Dallas, too, considering their workload.

They are not going to risk one officer, alone, for an obviously irate individual. He will wait for backup before going on scene.

The worse you make it sound, the longer you wait till more units clear their calls, call enroute to the scene, stage with everyone else, and then pull up together.

We had a huge guy in one of our projects. Standed there with the guy, myself and my partner, for 1 hour for TPD to arrive to throw the guy off the property. He was too damn huge to throw off ourselves, and he was careful not to physically threaten us so we couldn't simply hose and stomp. Not that I really wanted to in the first place, guy was freaking huge, and he noted, "I should tell you, officer pig, that OC dosen't affect me in the slightest bit. Not even that can of Sabre Red you have." Anyone who can pull the brand name of my OC in a closed pouch knows his s--t. My reply, heh, was, "I see, and I thank you for warning me about that. I'm afraid I'm out of force options if you become violent, so we'll just have to shoot you till you stop resisting. Oh, I have Hydra-Shok +P rounds." He looked at me and noted I was serious, and was carrying a .357 magnum. He was cooperative with us till the PD arrived, and then ran like a sprinter.

[Mr. Security]

I don't know about Tampa, but I would be surprised if Dallas operates 1 man cruisers instead of 2. If they have 2 in a patrol car, I don't believe that they would wait for a second unit before responding to the call, especially this call since the guy wasn't brandishing an assault rifle.

At any rate, even with 1 police officer per unit, the police in this area respond immediately to the call with back-up in route. If that's the way calls are handled in your area, it's unfortunate.

[N. A. Corbier]

I don't know about Tampa, but I would be surprised if Dallas operates 1 man cruisers instead of 2. If they have 2 in a patrol car, I don't believe that they would wait for a second unit before responding to the call, especially this call since the guy wasn't brandishing an assault rifle.

At any rate, even with 1 police officer per unit, the police in this area respond immediately to the call with back-up in route. If that's the way calls are handled in your area, it's unfortunate.

Isn't it, though? In Kenosha, its small enough that one man units patrol, and will answer calls alone. They usually don't request backup, either.