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  • Westlake security guard decked

    By HECTOR CASTRO
    P-I REPORTER

    A security guard working near Westlake Center was punched and knocked to the ground during a confrontation early Wednesday.

    The assault happened just before 12:30 a.m. Wednesday, according to a Seattle police report. It is the latest violent incident in the city's downtown shopping district.

    Less than two weeks ago, Chief Gil Kerlikowske announced plans to boost the police presence there in response to some recent shootings and assaults, as well as an increasing concern about drug dealing in the area.

    In Wednesday's attack, the 52-year-old security officer was conducting rounds along Pine Street near Fourth Avenue when he got into an argument with a man, according to police.

    A cabdriver and another witness said they watched the guard arguing with the man, when the man suddenly punched the security officer in the face. The blow sent the guard to the sidewalk, where he struck his head on the pavement.

    The assailant then walked away.

    Police described him as between 25 and 30, wearing a black shirt and green shorts and carrying a black backpack. Officers were unable to locate him, and no arrest was made in the case.

    Seattle firefighters treated the guard at the scene, determined he had possibly suffered a concussion, and took him to Harborview Medical Center.

    http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/329617_guard30.html
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

  • #2
    I am more than willing to bet that Westlake Shopping Center has not given that guard 18 seconds of DT training.
    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
    "The Curve" 1998

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
      I am more than willing to bet that Westlake Shopping Center has not given that guard 18 seconds of DT training.
      Please excuse my ignorance... what do you mean by DT training? Defensive Tactics?
      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

      Comment


      • #4
        Yes, defensive tactics. Something, unfortunately, most S/Os here never see a drop of. It wouldnt be so bad if they would at least teach S/Os some contact techniques, such as bladed stances, hand positions, and some simple blocks... but no... it seems most S/Os will never see anything of that nature.
        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
        "The Curve" 1998

        Comment


        • #5
          Since most guards are supposed to be non-confrontational and call the police at the first sign of confrontation after fleeing the scene... There's no "need" for DT training, or anything else.

          See: Why should we give these people training that they don't need and will cut into our profit margin?

          The worst problem is that usually, companies don't give training in de-escalation, either.
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #6
            Am I the only one who finds it interesting how "sanitized" the so-called description of the "man" was? Was he white? Black? Oriental? Height? Weight? etc. etc. etc.
            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
              Since most guards are supposed to be non-confrontational and call the police at the first sign of confrontation after fleeing the scene... There's no "need" for DT training, or anything else.

              See: Why should we give these people training that they don't need and will cut into our profit margin?

              The worst problem is that usually, companies don't give training in de-escalation, either.
              You know, I'm really tired of the cop-out as to what the company does or does not provide. Every single career field that I know of has training, some of it very basic, that people pay for themselves. Cops, webmasters, computer programmers, firemen, accountants, teachers, and even secretaries take training on their own initiative and on their own dime.

              Yes, security companies provide only the training that the law requires. So do lots of industries. Let's get past this tired old observation and say it once and for all - if you want to be a professional security officer you're going to have to take responsibility for a great deal of your own training, and probably your equipment as well. This is by no means unique to the field of security.

              End of song.
              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                Am I the only one who finds it interesting how "sanitized" the so-called description of the "man" was? Was he white? Black? Oriental? Height? Weight? etc. etc. etc.
                That's Seattle for you. At least one department in this (Metro King County) area now REPRIMANDS it's officers for using the incorrect terminology for racial identifiers. I.e., he's not a black male, he's an african-American male.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I dont say African-American because what if they are Dominican?
                  "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
                  "The Curve" 1998

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
                    You know, I'm really tired of the cop-out as to what the company does or does not provide. Every single career field that I know of has training, some of it very basic, that people pay for themselves. Cops, webmasters, computer programmers, firemen, accountants, teachers, and even secretaries take training on their own initiative and on their own dime.

                    Yes, security companies provide only the training that the law requires. So do lots of industries. Let's get past this tired old observation and say it once and for all - if you want to be a professional security officer you're going to have to take responsibility for a great deal of your own training, and probably your equipment as well. This is by no means unique to the field of security.

                    End of song.
                    And then there's the problem of taking training on your own which conflicts with company policy and company culture, such as "police-like" training.

                    I am of the opinion that in most firms, they would rather you be decked than use force against someone else. After all, if you are decked, laying on the ground and do not fight back, then you can't be sued for the employee's actions!

                    (Of course, you can be sued for wearing the wrong color tie that makes you look like a Martian.)
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                      Yes, defensive tactics. Something, unfortunately, most S/Os here never see a drop of. It wouldnt be so bad if they would at least teach S/Os some contact techniques, such as bladed stances, hand positions, and some simple blocks... but no... it seems most S/Os will never see anything of that nature.
                      Seems other than SO's taking it upon themselves to train in these specific techniques, the only way this will be changed is if your State's Security Regulatory body adds such instruction to the minimum industry training requirements (as has been done in this State)

                      Originally posted by N.A. Corbier
                      (Of course, you can be sued for wearing the wrong color tie that makes you look like a Martian.)
                      Just what colour ties do Martians actually wear?
                      "We make a living by what we get, but we make a life by what we give" - Winston Churchill

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Maelstrom View Post
                        Seems other than SO's taking it upon themselves to train in these specific techniques, the only way this will be changed is if your State's Security Regulatory body adds such instruction to the minimum industry training requirements (as has been done in this State)


                        Just what colour ties do Martians actually wear?
                        Midnight Blue, I'm told.

                        Green ties with white shirts mean you're from Jupiter.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                          I am of the opinion that in most firms, they would rather you be decked than use force against someone else.
                          The fundamental human right of the citizen to defend himself, when in imminent danger of bodiliy injury, cannot be denied by any enforceable company policy, nor can the citizen be required to voluntarily abrogate such rights as a condition of employment that would be enforceable in law. All that company policy can do is to proscribe or sanction the use of certain means or weapons of self-defense.

                          This is not to say that some companies have not tried to implement such policies, but any employment attorney would simply drool to get his hands on a wrongful termination or disciplinary case based on such policies, I'm sure. Of course, the situation must be such that the danger was clear and imminent.

                          Some policies have, for instance, "required" that the officer must first attempt to escape the situation before defending himself. I don't believe even these policies have been upheld in labor law. I'll look for some case law when I get the time.
                          Last edited by SecTrainer; 09-02-2007, 09:41 PM.
                          "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                          "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                          "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                          "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by BHR Lawson View Post
                            I dont say African-American because what if they are Dominican?
                            I was gonna say.....

                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                            Of course, you can be sued for wearing the wrong color tie that makes you look like a Martian.)
                            Where the heck are you from that lets you sue for something like that! AND lets you discriminate for something like that!
                            sigpic
                            Rocket Science
                            Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                            http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                            One Man's Opinion

                            The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

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                            • #15
                              I have a customer that uses a contract guard service. This is a regional financial institution headquarters with 3 buildings on the campus, one guard on duty at night. After hours one evening a year ago or more, I was repairing a door stike of the lobby of one of the buildings, and a car pulled up. This guy, about 70 +/- 10 years, and had one of those canes with the 4 legs on it.

                              What is this guy gonna do if he confronts someone. I don't think his balance was good enough to swing the cane. And he's supposed to check out the buildings if the alarm goes off.
                              sigpic
                              Rocket Science
                              Making everything else look simple, since 1958.


                              http://my.opera.com/integrator/blog/
                              One Man's Opinion

                              The Future. It isn't what it used to be.

                              Comment

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