Unarmed NYPD Volunteers Shot to death

[SecureTN]

http://www.policemag.com/t_newspick.cfm?rank=77958

19 Yr old and 28 Yr old NYPD Volunteer Officers, both unarmed were shot to death in a Pizzaria. Please read the whole story.

[N. A. Corbier]

I heard about this on SPE.

These guys are Auxiliary Police. Basically, security guards in NYPD uniforms with nothing but a radio. They couldn't of done anything to the suspect but call it in. Why he engaged, who knows.

[LPGuy]

Basically, security guards in NYPD uniforms with nothing but a radio.

According to the article at http://www.officer.com, they carry handcuffs and wooden batons as well.

Still, I also wondered why they engaged an armed offender. But of course we don't know all the specifics...

[N. A. Corbier]

Conflicting reports seem to be the norm. Another report indicates that the offender chased them down, then killed them.

The Wiki article notes that they're observe and report volunteers for the police, and that using the baton or handcuffs is "extremely uncommon."

It also notes that they are not issued vests.

[davis002]

They weren't inside the pizzeria. The suspect shot a bartender in the back at the pizzeria 15 times. They were nearby when the call went out over the radio. Unfortunately, they were the first to arrive. They tried to follow him at a distance while updating the responding officers of his location. The suspect noticed them following him... he crossed the street... gunned down one of them who was ducked down behind a parked car and shot the other one in the head as he tried to run away. Seconds later, officers were arriving and engaging. The gun battle lasted approximately 5 minutes with 56 rounds fired.

Now the back story... The suspect is a former marine who recieved a less than honorable discharge. He was a former bartender at that pizzeria. A friend of the suspect was just recently fired from that pizzeria.

[LPCap]

http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/uslawman/vpost?id=1765794&trail=30#24

Another forum discussing the deaths. One post has bio information and pictures.

Very sad.

[Mr. Security]

They weren't inside the pizzeria. The suspect shot a bartender in the back at the pizzeria 15 times. They were nearby when the call went out over the radio. Unfortunately, they were the first to arrive. They tried to follow him at a distance while updating the responding officers of his location. The suspect noticed them following him... he crossed the street... gunned down one of them who was ducked down behind a parked car and shot the other one in the head as he tried to run away. Seconds later, officers were arriving and engaging. The gun battle lasted approximately 5 minutes with 56 rounds fired.

Now the back story... The suspect is a former marine who recieved a less than honorable discharge. He was a former bartender at that pizzeria. A friend of the suspect was just recently fired from that pizzeria.

Unarmed officers on the "friendly" streets of NYC? Not a good job, IMO. Unarmed LE has worked well in countries that have strict handgun laws, but not here.

[davis002]

Unarmed officers on the "friendly" streets of NYC? Not a good job, IMO. Unarmed LE has worked well in countries that have strict handgun laws, but not here.

I couldn't agree more. Reserve/Aux Police can work unarmed and still provide a valuable support role, but regular foot patrol in a complex urban society? I don't think so.

[Guest]

Why he engaged, who knows.

Because they were brave and they wanted to do the right thing and save people....instead of following cya policies and protocols.

[tlangsr]

u gotta understand that policies and protocols are there for a reason. If an officer (LE or S/O) goes down before back up gets there then a lot more people can get killed. These officers were unarmed.

[N. A. Corbier]

"He" was the bad guy, and we know why, now. They showed up first on scene, and he decided they were the enemy and engaged them.

[Mr. Security]

Because they were brave and they wanted to do the right thing and save people....instead of following cya policies and protocols.

Bravery is indeed a desirable quality. Nevertheless, you can't help others if you become the next victim. All that accomplishes is tying up other resources that could have been used to help bring the situation under control.

For example, jumping in the water to save a drowning person is a brave thing to do, but not always the BEST thing to do. Throwing a life ring to the swimmer could prevent the individual from getting you in a choke-hold that would result in BOTH of you drowning.

It not always that simple, but procedures usually come about because someone died unnecessarily trying to handle an emergency the way they thought it should be done.

[talon]

Only in New York do the Police routinely kill unarmed people with vollies of bullets yet will not let auxillary Officers carry weapons so that they can engage armed criminals...go figure.

[LPCap]

Here is surveillance video of the shootings - hopefully it will put into perspective what happened. They both were tracking the shooters movements when he spotted them and shot them. Luckily plainclothes PD were close and could shoot this guy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLqtOqmawW4

I am glad the NYPD gave them the proper respect.