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gotta love graveyard shift..

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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    That's fascinating. I have never seen a state statute that takes a power reserved for "peace officers," and then add "or other person" next to it, granting that power to everyone.

    In every state's Terry Stop rule I've read, it is a power specifically authorized to police/peace officers only. "Force to Protect One's Self or Other" has always meant "using force to counter physical action," not "using force to search a person." In that if someone has a hidden gun, it is justifiable to cause them harm to prevent them from drawing the weapon, but not justifiable to search them for the hidden weapon.
    The circumstances under which you can get away with, notice how I say get away with, patting somebody down really depend on the person's behavior and the circumstances under which it is done. If I, as a private citizen, decide to detain somebody and pat him down just for the sake of seeing if he has a weapon and no other extenuating circumstances exist such as aggressive behavior or statements like "I'm going to blow you away" then I have in effect committed criminal violations myself and I will be the one to go to jail since I had no legal reason to detain.

    Now, suppose I order a person to leave my property who is carrying a large backpack. He refuses to comply and keeps walking across my property. "Reasonable non-deadly force", usually meaning minimal force, can be used to prevent trespassing in this case. This can mean blocking his path or even using some sort of gesturing or pointing. Laying hands on the person is normally only justified if the subject is advancing toward you. Suppose this suspect decides to make some really aggressive movements toward you while you're trying to get him to leave and keeps putting his hand in his pocket. At that time, I can use non-deadly force to prevent an assault on myself. That may include pushing him away or using o.c. spray, whichever is necessary. Pursuant to that, a pat down can be done to prevent an assault with a deadly weapon. I would not be allowed to just drive up to a guy and pat him down just because he is on my property though. The basis for the pat down would have to be self protection, not detention for suspicion with a search involved.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    A Terry frisk can be performed by a private citizen in Texas under the guise of "using non-deadly force in protection of the person". In other words, if the subject is making aggressive body movements along with his refusal to leave, we can get away with patting down the outer clothing to check for weapons. This is only if we feel that level of force is necessary for self defence. If one is found, police are normally called. The only problem with that is we can only really get away with arresting that person if he is displaying the weapon. If it is an illegal form of weapon, the weapon can be turned over to the police as a criminal instrument. If any drugs are found during the pat down, the person cannot be arrested for them because of the exclusionary rule since we didn't go searching for drugs in the first place. Nothing I know of says I can't smash or throw away the illegal substance though.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...00.htm#9.31.00
    That's fascinating. I have never seen a state statute that takes a power reserved for "peace officers," and then add "or other person" next to it, granting that power to everyone.

    In every state's Terry Stop rule I've read, it is a power specifically authorized to police/peace officers only. "Force to Protect One's Self or Other" has always meant "using force to counter physical action," not "using force to search a person." In that if someone has a hidden gun, it is justifiable to cause them harm to prevent them from drawing the weapon, but not justifiable to search them for the hidden weapon.

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  • aka Bull
    replied
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    A Terry frisk can be performed by a private citizen in Texas under the guise of "using non-deadly force in protection of the person". In other words, if the subject is making aggressive body movements along with his refusal to leave, we can get away with patting down the outer clothing to check for weapons. This is only if we feel that level of force is necessary for self defence. If one is found, police are normally called. The only problem with that is we can only really get away with arresting that person if he is displaying the weapon. If it is an illegal form of weapon, the weapon can be turned over to the police as a criminal instrument. If any drugs are found during the pat down, the person cannot be arrested for them because of the exclusionary rule since we didn't go searching for drugs in the first place. Nothing I know of says I can't smash or throw away the illegal substance though.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...00.htm#9.31.00
    While we may search for weapons as well, in the norm we won't unless we need to take physical action to prevent further trespass on property or the individual is making movements in a manner which may lead us to believe the individual may be carrying a weapon.

    This is outside of our Emergency Department, where everyone entering is subject to search for weapons.

    Should during any search we find suspected illegal drugs we will not return them to the individual but call the PD and turn this "found" contraband over to them for disposal.

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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    Texas permits Terry Stops for security personnel? Or is it search incident to private arrest?
    A Terry frisk can be performed by a private citizen in Texas under the guise of "using non-deadly force in protection of the person". In other words, if the subject is making aggressive body movements along with his refusal to leave, we can get away with patting down the outer clothing to check for weapons. This is only if we feel that level of force is necessary for self defence. If one is found, police are normally called. The only problem with that is we can only really get away with arresting that person if he is displaying the weapon. If it is an illegal form of weapon, the weapon can be turned over to the police as a criminal instrument. If any drugs are found during the pat down, the person cannot be arrested for them because of the exclusionary rule since we didn't go searching for drugs in the first place. Nothing I know of says I can't smash or throw away the illegal substance though.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...00.htm#9.31.00

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    They'll arrest here too, if they have the actual contraband on the person. If it's just some brain damaged subject with nothing on him/her though, the person just gets escorted off the property. If I need to pursue the matter past pointing at a specific direction, the subject can get patted down. He gets detained if there's a weapon. If there's just dope I smash it into the ground and get the subject to leave.
    Texas permits Terry Stops for security personnel? Or is it search incident to private arrest?

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  • aka Bull
    replied
    We don't usually call the cops - we'll remove the subject ourselves. Under state law once we, as agents of the hospital, order a person off property and they refuse to leave then they are comitting criminal trespass. We can use reasonable force to stop a further trespass if they try to go anywhere else on property.

    If we do get the PD involved the subject ends up leaving with a cite for criminal trespass.

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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    The police are not as busy over here. When we have a situation like that, we call them in as a suspicious person, possibly under the influence. The police will check them out and arrest them if they find weapons or drugs.
    They'll arrest here too, if they have the actual contraband on the person. If it's just some brain damaged subject with nothing on him/her though, the person just gets escorted off the property. If I need to pursue the matter past pointing at a specific direction, the subject can get patted down. He gets detained if there's a weapon. If there's just dope I smash it into the ground and get the subject to leave.

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  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    That's what we refer to as a "street zombie" or a "burnout". The person's brain no longer functions properly, but there's not any punitive action to take against them if they don't commit a crime. I usually just point to the proper direction of the street and they take it.
    The police are not as busy over here. When we have a situation like that, we call them in as a suspicious person, possibly under the influence. The police will check them out and arrest them if they find weapons or drugs.

    Leave a comment:


  • Echos13
    replied
    Twenty five years ago, yea graveyard was fun and interesting. All kinds of life forms use to come around. I do not like graveyard these days. It's too hard on this old bodies metabolism. Well, not that old anyway. I am trying to get use to afternoons after six years of mostly days. Arg! But it beats graveyard I guess. I get more than enough things to do on afternoons. Both good and bad situations. But man does the old internal clock tend to take its toll sometimes.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    This reminds me of the nice delusional lady who hid the butcher knife in her teddy bear.

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  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Probably the strangest character I ever had to deal with on the night shift was this one little homeless guy who used to camp out in an alley behind one of the buildings I used to patrol. The orders for the property included removing people like him from the property.

    The first time I saw him he left, no problem. The second time he didn't want to leave. He just stood there arguing and getting loud, using a few choice curse words. One thing led to another and I ended up pulling out my o.c. spray can just for the sake of display and he backed away and left.
    Around a week later, I found him asleep in his little makeshift box again. Directly above him, on the back door of the building, was some graffiti written in dried blood "James... 1965-1988 ha ha ha?". I'm thinking o..kaaay.
    Then I start thinking, why are no other homeless people congregating back here like they do every place else? I decided to leave him alone. He was still breathing, so it's not like he was seriously trying to commit suicide or anything.

    The next day I spoke to the owner of the little grocery store where he camped out and was told it was ok for him to be there and to leave him alone (gasp). Well I heard the man and left him alone. Several weeks later I spoke to a security guard who had worked in the area quite a bit and was told the little man had AIDS and was severely delusional. Uh oh, big eye opener. I'm glad I never tried to handcuff him or lay hands on him.

    Four or five months went by and I found him hanging around there while the stores were open. He was screaming at people who weren't there and was running toward store patrons, making them peel tires to get away from him. He didn't want to leave when I told him to either. I called up 911 to try to get the cops to come out. Of course there were 20-something calls ahead of mine and they were working a chase or something so no cops were available to come out. Out came the pepper spray can and he ran away.

    Several weeks went by and I never saw him again. I found out later he went into one of his crazed fits and attacked another homeless man with a broken bottle and ended up being stabbed in the chest and died.

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  • darrell
    replied
    I worked mids at the mall on and off for a few years. I had some fun on fri and sat night when the theater was open till 0200..

    I had a few B&E's that were good, had a DUI in the lot, and I backed the Sheriff on alarms a lot in the surrounding area..

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  • Lawson
    replied
    As I noted in a previous thread, I am completely partial to graveyard shifts. Currently though... I work days... augh. This is only so I can complete my Reserve Academy. If I find I was not accepted to the academy, or upon my completion... It will likely be si-a-nora!

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  • EMTGuard
    replied
    I perfer the night shift. Not as hot (this is Louisiana after all) and less traffic and a little more relaxed. I can do my job and not feel totally rushed like the dayshift.

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    About 14 years ago the former security director who was afraid I was going to take his job away from him tried to make me quit by doing things like sending me to work at the hotel by the airport & putting me on the overnight shift. (I had not worked overnights in about 5 years). The first night I'm patrolling down the hall & a stark naked prostitute comes running down the hall towards me asking for help. She was an escort & the guest had gotten rough with her. A month later it happened again. A while later I came upon a naked couple "doing it" in the kiddie pool. One thing about the overnight shift. You do get to see some interesting sights

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