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  • #16
    Originally posted by 1stWatch
    A Terry frisk can be performed by a private citizen in Texas under the guise of "using non-deadly force in protection of the person". In other words, if the subject is making aggressive body movements along with his refusal to leave, we can get away with patting down the outer clothing to check for weapons. This is only if we feel that level of force is necessary for self defence. If one is found, police are normally called. The only problem with that is we can only really get away with arresting that person if he is displaying the weapon. If it is an illegal form of weapon, the weapon can be turned over to the police as a criminal instrument. If any drugs are found during the pat down, the person cannot be arrested for them because of the exclusionary rule since we didn't go searching for drugs in the first place. Nothing I know of says I can't smash or throw away the illegal substance though.

    http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu...00.htm#9.31.00
    That's fascinating. I have never seen a state statute that takes a power reserved for "peace officers," and then add "or other person" next to it, granting that power to everyone.

    In every state's Terry Stop rule I've read, it is a power specifically authorized to police/peace officers only. "Force to Protect One's Self or Other" has always meant "using force to counter physical action," not "using force to search a person." In that if someone has a hidden gun, it is justifiable to cause them harm to prevent them from drawing the weapon, but not justifiable to search them for the hidden weapon.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
      That's fascinating. I have never seen a state statute that takes a power reserved for "peace officers," and then add "or other person" next to it, granting that power to everyone.

      In every state's Terry Stop rule I've read, it is a power specifically authorized to police/peace officers only. "Force to Protect One's Self or Other" has always meant "using force to counter physical action," not "using force to search a person." In that if someone has a hidden gun, it is justifiable to cause them harm to prevent them from drawing the weapon, but not justifiable to search them for the hidden weapon.
      The circumstances under which you can get away with, notice how I say get away with, patting somebody down really depend on the person's behavior and the circumstances under which it is done. If I, as a private citizen, decide to detain somebody and pat him down just for the sake of seeing if he has a weapon and no other extenuating circumstances exist such as aggressive behavior or statements like "I'm going to blow you away" then I have in effect committed criminal violations myself and I will be the one to go to jail since I had no legal reason to detain.

      Now, suppose I order a person to leave my property who is carrying a large backpack. He refuses to comply and keeps walking across my property. "Reasonable non-deadly force", usually meaning minimal force, can be used to prevent trespassing in this case. This can mean blocking his path or even using some sort of gesturing or pointing. Laying hands on the person is normally only justified if the subject is advancing toward you. Suppose this suspect decides to make some really aggressive movements toward you while you're trying to get him to leave and keeps putting his hand in his pocket. At that time, I can use non-deadly force to prevent an assault on myself. That may include pushing him away or using o.c. spray, whichever is necessary. Pursuant to that, a pat down can be done to prevent an assault with a deadly weapon. I would not be allowed to just drive up to a guy and pat him down just because he is on my property though. The basis for the pat down would have to be self protection, not detention for suspicion with a search involved.
      "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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