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A hard look at major contract security.

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  • #16
    Saying that I come to what the FoP and other police organizations could scream about. They lose already on some issues as security officers get training in defensive tactics, weapons (ASP, Taser, OC, etc) and work to learn skills for verbal de-escalation, basic legal requirements and such. If they wanted to yell I feel, and please I hope others wade in on this thought, it would be if they felt their status and authority as peace officers was being tromped on - say like expanded powers off the job site - in general.

    I can't see the police screaming about a security officer getting better trained. The better trained a security officer is, the less likely he will have to call the police to assist him at his job site.
    But if you expand the security officer's power off the job site, aren't you now becoming the police?

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    • #17
      [QUOTE=T202
      I can't see the police screaming about a security officer getting better trained. The better trained a security officer is, the less likely he will have to call the police to assist him at his job site.
      [/QUOTE]

      That's exactly what the police unions are worried about. Less calls, more cutbacks, less members, less membership dues.
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by HotelSecurity
        That's exactly what the police unions are worried about. Less calls, more cutbacks, less members, less membership dues.
        I don’t think we have to worry about reductions in LE for lack of bailing out security officers. There is sufficient sloth and mendacity to insure they are employed for the foreseeable future.
        Enjoy the day,
        Bill

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        • #19
          Originally posted by T202
          Saying that I come to what the FoP and other police organizations could scream about. They lose already on some issues as security officers get training in defensive tactics, weapons (ASP, Taser, OC, etc) and work to learn skills for verbal de-escalation, basic legal requirements and such. If they wanted to yell I feel, and please I hope others wade in on this thought, it would be if they felt their status and authority as peace officers was being tromped on - say like expanded powers off the job site - in general.

          I can't see the police screaming about a security officer getting better trained. The better trained a security officer is, the less likely he will have to call the police to assist him at his job site.
          But if you expand the security officer's power off the job site, aren't you now becoming the police?
          Actually, the higher trained you are, the more likely you are to encroach on what some believe to be "police powers," such as using force to defend another, protecting persons and property (That's a police job, now), etc.

          One of the major issues is that the police have gotten into the security business. The more that security officers are trained, the less likely clients are to pay 50-70 an hour for a police officer who's enforcement powers do not equal greater protection.

          A good example is, say, hiring a police officer to protect a grocery store from shoplifters. This actually happened, a company decided to take the Sheriff's bid because it was cheaper than most of the security companies.

          Florida's Merchant Authority in Retail Theft provides quazi-police powers to the agent of the owner. So, an armed security officer has powers of arrest (retail theft), private right of arrest (felony), trespass authority (agent of owner), and use of force (invested in the citizen in Florida, not the police).

          So, as far as protecting the people inside, as well as the property itself, and enforcing Florida's shoplifting laws, where's the upside in hiring a deputy sheriff who gets a paid two hour lunch? Oh, and during that two hour lunch, you are without coverage. The manager is supposed to perform the services of the deputy in re: developing a shoplifting case, chasing down the shoplifter, phsyically subduing them, and calling Tampa Police when a shoplifter is caught for arrest and transport.
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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          • #20
            Solution

            Contract Security needs to be regulated by the Federal Government so that standards are the same nationwide. When the airlines were regulated, prices were higher for tickets, but overall the airlines were able to avoid the cut-throat price cutting and lousy service that has driven many of them out of business. Does anyone really think that we are better off with the airlines now that they are deregulated? Hardly!

            Once security is regulated, underbidding at the lowest level will no longer be a factor. I know what some of you are thinking. "Look at the TSA. They aren't the best security force around." Granted. I'm not saying that government regulation is the panacea that we all would like to see. Rather, the government is the only agency powerful enough to force some degree of compliance and standardization across the board. If you have a better solution, please share it with us so that we can comment on it.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #21
              N.A. you have a much better grasp on the business end of security than I do. After reading your post, my first instinct was to disagree with you about police getting into the private security business. Then I started thinking about high school dances, football games, county fairs and so on. These functions are all “protected” by police departments through their reserve units. And the high school or the fair committee has to pay for this service.
              You are right, they are in the business. How do we get them out of the business?

              Can professional, highly trained Security Company be competitive with the police departments on bidding on these jobs? If the police departments are getting under bid by a competent security company, so be it. If two bidding organizations are equally trained I would think that the job would go to the lowest bid.

              I am a firm believer in police departments working for the taxpayer not the "paying" grocery store owner.

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              • #22
                Functions that require a police presence are handled by off-duty police officers in my area. They call it "side-duty." If security tried to move into this extra source of income over here, there would definitely be opposition.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #23
                  What would possibly occur would be an organization on a state by state basis that would set the standards within their jurisdiction, like the state POST agencies for law enforcement.

                  An national organization of security officers working to provide a more professional force could work to get the states to set up such POST like agencies in their respective state, hopefully getting a minimum standards level across the board.

                  Whatever federal guidelines you could get into place, if any, would likely end up as an unfunded mandate. I think you'd find that Congress would rather leave this to the states, as they do with POST. The feds would only be interested in regulating on federal property in most cases.
                  "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it." -Aristotle

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                  • #24
                    In Panama City Beach during Spring Break, Bay County Sherrif's Deputies pull 'extra duty' at the same hotels that private security companies protect. That's right most of the time it's one Deputy and one SO on duty at the same time. When I worked down there I usually had a good repoir (sp) with the Deputies and we worked together and accomplished alot.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by GCMC Security
                      In Panama City Beach during Spring Break, Bay County Sherrif's Deputies pull 'extra duty' at the same hotels that private security companies protect. That's right most of the time it's one Deputy and one SO on duty at the same time. When I worked down there I usually had a good repoir (sp) with the Deputies and we worked together and accomplished alot.
                      That works for me. Perfect set-up. The deputy can handle the serious problems, and security can take care of the minor ones.
                      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Mr. Security
                        Functions that require a police presence are handled by off-duty police officers in my area. They call it "side-duty." If security tried to move into this extra source of income over here, there would definitely be opposition.
                        That's the thing. What goes on there that they need a public police officer to perform law enforcement duties there?

                        If they're guarding things, then that's not a police function. If they're enforcing laws, then it is.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by GCMC Security
                          In Panama City Beach during Spring Break, Bay County Sherrif's Deputies pull 'extra duty' at the same hotels that private security companies protect. That's right most of the time it's one Deputy and one SO on duty at the same time. When I worked down there I usually had a good repoir (sp) with the Deputies and we worked together and accomplished alot.
                          A Holiday Inn that I was at had staff from another one. They had two deputy sheriff's at the holiday inn the staff was from, and one patrol security officer (me) at the one they were at now.

                          They saw no difference in level of service. The deputies had to call for on-duty police officers to take anyone away. So did we, obviously. The deputies would do room evictions, the same way that we did. Except that they had fourth amendment search and seizure issues, where we could just open the door and inspect the room.

                          When it comes to guarding people, the general idea has been advanced that you require a sworn police officer to somehow do this. Its a silly idea. You only need a sworn police officer to make arrests in the name of the state. The rest of it is protection, and anyone with the proper training can do it.

                          "You have to leave."
                          "No, you can't ma! Ow! Ow!"
                          *removes patron to curb, ejects*
                          "If you come back, you'll be arrested. Night."

                          How does this require a police officer, again?
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mr. Security
                            Functions that require a police presence are handled by off-duty police officers in my area. They call it "side-duty." If security tried to move into this extra source of income over here, there would definitely be opposition.
                            Is the function paying the off-duty police officer direct? Or is the police dept getting paid to put an officer there? I know, I'm beating a dead horse.
                            The dept I worked for didn't allow officers to work security side jobs. It was considered a conflict of interest.

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              That's the thing. What goes on there that they need a public police officer to perform law enforcement duties there?

                              If they're guarding things, then that's not a police function. If they're enforcing laws, then it is.
                              Actually, nothing that security couldn't handle. Even if laws are broken, the police could be summoned if security got in over their heads. It's all about the money.
                              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by T202
                                Is the function paying the off-duty police officer direct? Or is the police dept getting paid to put an officer there? I know, I'm beating a dead horse.
                                The dept I worked for didn't allow officers to work security side jobs. It was considered a conflict of interest.
                                Yes. The department is just reimbursed for the use of any police cruisers.
                                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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