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  • mall security

    at the mall i work at if a shop calls me to come into the shop i go sometimes its just a presence thing and others its because they have a few people they want me to check their bags with them.i dont actually do anything other than assist the shopkeeper but if i see someone steal something with my own eyes i do something.i had to take some stolen items to a stoer across the road to another mall and the girls in this shop were very interested in how i got the stolen stuff so i told them i had detained a shoplifter who had dumped the other stuff in the shop so she wouldnt be busted for it as well.these girls told me they had called their mall security because some girls had stolen from there and they needed help this guard came into the shop and started abusing the shop staff in front of the shoplifters and said he was not there to intimadate people.if you are mall security or any other for that matter would you help someone out if you were not busy.if i have people doing something wrong in the mall that is my first priority but i can still help out the shops.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ozsecuritychic
    at the mall i work at if a shop calls me to come into the shop i go sometimes its just a presence thing and others its because they have a few people they want me to check their bags with them.i dont actually do anything other than assist the shopkeeper but if i see someone steal something with my own eyes i do something.i had to take some stolen items to a stoer across the road to another mall and the girls in this shop were very interested in how i got the stolen stuff so i told them i had detained a shoplifter who had dumped the other stuff in the shop so she wouldnt be busted for it as well.these girls told me they had called their mall security because some girls had stolen from there and they needed help this guard came into the shop and started abusing the shop staff in front of the shoplifters and said he was not there to intimadate people.if you are mall security or any other for that matter would you help someone out if you were not busy.if i have people doing something wrong in the mall that is my first priority but i can still help out the shops.

    for the short two months that i did mall security, i worked for IPC international, and as policy to the crossroad mall in salt lake city, we "WERE NOT TO ENTER STORES FOR ASSIST" , the store would have to "call us, and we would have to wait till they actually left the store and into the main mall area before they could be seized for shop lifting"
    When not at work or out watching a moive.. passed out at the keyboard.

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    • #3
      2 of the 3 hotels I work for are set up like a mall. The bars, restaurant, parking garage & banquet/meeting rooms are not managed by the hotel. They are run by independant companies. (The hotel manages the bedrooms). As a rule I don't do regular patrols in these areas. However their lease agreement says that we are to intervene when they ask us to.
      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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      • #4
        Generally, in America, liability and actual powers are King. In most states in America, if you detained a shoplifter, you are required to immediately summon the police, turn all evidence over to them, and the police will decide what to do with both evidence and offender.

        To explain "merchant's authority" and how you working for the management company of the mall (and not the individual shops in it) works, I'll use this little scenerio.

        You are a mall security officer. You are armed with a firearm, a night stick (ASP extendable baton), Pepper Spray, Handcuffs, a Flashlight, and carry a notebook and pens. Your company was hired by the management company of the mall itself. The stores in the mall rent space from the mall management company, and are not considered "mall property."

        A store manager summons mall security because they fear the shoplifter that their own store security are going to stop might be violent. The security officers respond to the request, going only as far as in front of the store. They cannot enter the store, as they are no longer on their assigned property if they do so. Being armed, it may be illegal (Usually not, "performance of duties" can trump "remain on client property") to enter the store with the gun on.

        The store security, who are in plain clothes and not armed, stop the shoplifter. The shoplifter strikes the store security in the face with a large glass bottle of perfume, breaking one of their noses and giving him cuts, and sprints out of the store. The other store security officer gives chase, screaming, "Stop! Stop that man!"

        What you can give chase and stop the shoplifter for (Generally):
        - Disturbing the Peace
        - Public Disorderly
        - Trespassing
        - Aggrivated Battery

        What you cannot stop the shoplifter for:
        - Shoplifting

        As you are not an agent of the store that the shoplifter stole from, you do not have 'merchant's right' to stop suspected shoplifters. However, you are still a private person, and observed a breach of the peace committed in your presence. You also observed the shoplifter commit aggrivated battery (striking someone with a weapon), so you can stop him for that.

        If the guy didn't hit the security, and simply walked off, the only thing you could stop him to do is order him to leave the property, as shoplifting is generally not considered a breach of the peace.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #5
          I have also worked in mall security before. The two major issues I saw at hand were what was legal and what did the mall's or security company's policies say. I am totally unfamiliar with Australia's criminal laws, so I am totally unqualified to make any comments about what should and shouldn't be done there. Most malls I have seen or have worked in do not permit the security to enter tenant stores. When I did it, I was allowed to enter a tenant store when called, for visibility or to assist with disturbances.

          It was stated in mall policy I was not to detain their shoplifters. The state government's law, however, did allow me to detain their shoplifters. If I wished to keep my job then I had better not even walk up to any suspect since the mall's corporate office, located in a different state with a different government and different penal code, would view it as an "illegal detention" and a "potential liability". In reality, it was the best idea to not even think about using the handcuffs since it would most likely result in termination of employment because of some silly donkey who designed a corporate security policy that is thought of as being tantamount to and above the actual law.

          To comment about the security guard at the other mall you witnessed, however, it would seem to me he was out of line. Part of the whole purpose of being at a mall is to be "customer friendly" and to be some sort of "goodwill ambassador" at the property. To display an unfriendly attitude in public, even if the store employees were in the wrong, defeats the purpose of being there. There is a thing called "effective communication skills" that it sounds like he was lacking in.
          "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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          • #6
            In Canada the BIG difference between arrest by a citizen & the police is that citizens must witness the crime. Police can arrest if they have reasonable & probable grounds to believe a crime has taken place. Citizens can also arrest if they believe a crime has taken place AND the suspect is fleeing someone who is legally allowed to arrest him. So if you are working in a mall & see a merchand chasing someone yelling "stop theif" you could arrest him if you believed a crime had taken place & he was being chased by someone you knew was allowed to arrest.
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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            • #7
              In Michigan if you spot the retail fraud occuring then you can hold/detain the suspect and take them back to the store. If a store employee wits it then they have to make the approach with the guard and tell them they are being detained.

              Also Mall security can search any bag that leaves the store at anytime for anyreason.. But you need permission of the store and must have a employee with you at the time of said search.

              My largest bust as a mall guard was $40,000 and $35,000..... Both were a theft ring.
              http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3203/darrell29jc.gif

              The FUTURE is MSP...

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              • #8
                Originally posted by darrell
                Also Mall security can search any bag that leaves the store at anytime for anyreason.. But you need permission of the store and must have a employee with you at the time of said search.
                I'm surprised at this! If they won't let you are you allowed to detain & even use force? In Canada you can not search without their permission.
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Most malls are Private Property here which means the store owns the land, space or storefront at which they sell their articles. That allows them the right to stop, search all persons suspected of anything indecent.

                  Retail fraud is the most common arrest for misdmeanors around here. Since you have to witness it then you can detain here. Our mall had a contract with the Sheriff's Department to handle such incidents.


                  The Mall I worked for was a General Growth Property and we ranked 2nd in our companies region for retail fraud arrests with over 150 a year..

                  99% of the time the apprenshions occured at the stores like Claire, or teeny bopper trinkets and trash jewelery stores.
                  http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3203/darrell29jc.gif

                  The FUTURE is MSP...

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                    Generally, in America, liability and actual powers are King.....
                    N.A.'s first line is really the bottom line on this discussion. Until a law is passed making the plaintiff liable for all court costs and the defendant's legal expenses when losing a case, money-hungry lawyers will continue to take on cases that have little or no merit in hopes of forcing a settlement in their client's favor. Living in a 'sue-happy' country means that liability is a chief concern whenever a security company sets forth its policies.

                    Another problem with civil juries is that they see themselves in the plaintiffs plight and may be sympathetic towards the plaintiff because they believe, right or wrong, that they could just as easily be the plaintiff and would want similar treatment by a jury in their case. That's why it can be so difficult to get liability insurance when starting a security company.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                    • #11
                      our laws.SECURITY AND THE CRIMES ACT.
                      Any constable or other person may without warrant apprehend,
                      any person in the act of committing,or immediately after having committed,an offence punishable,whether by indictment,or on summary conviction,under any act.
                      any person who has committed a serious indictable offence for which the person has not been tried,

                      And take the person and any property found upon the person,before an authourised justice to be dealt with according to law.

                      we have to have the persons permission to search bags if they say no and we know they have something then we can detain them.
                      Last edited by ozsecuritychic; 05-21-2006, 10:11 PM.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ozsecuritychic
                        our laws.SECURITY AND THE CRIMES ACT.
                        Any constable or other person may without warrant apprehend,
                        any person in the act of committing,or immediately after having committed,an offence punishable,whether by indictment,or on summary conviction,under any act.
                        any person who has committed a serious indictable offence for which the person has not been tried,

                        And take the person and any property found upon the person,before an authourised justice to be dealt with according to law.

                        we have to have the persons permission to search bags if they say no and we know they have something then we can detain them.
                        In Canada a private citizen CAN NOT arrest for a summary conviction act only for indictable offences UNLESS he is the owner of the property OR HIS AGENT (US ), in which case he may arrest for ANY criminal code offence, indictable, summary conviction or mixed. We also must witness the act & must turn the person over to the police.

                        (For our US friends - An indictable offences = a felony
                        A summary conviction = mistomeanor (sp?)
                        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by HotelSecurity
                          I'm surprised at this! If they won't let you are you allowed to detain & even use force? In Canada you can not search without their permission.
                          Nathan & others. Is he misinterpreting the law or is it really a fact that a merchand can FORCE you to allow you to search them? What can they do if you refuse?

                          If it is true I am really surprised! I thought we were more liberal & we CAN NOT search someone without their permission. If you refuse to be searched we can ban you from entering but we can not use physical force or prevent you from leaving, it would be assault & worse.
                          I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                          Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            On searches: When we enter private property, we can, not always do, grant consent to the property owner to search our person or belongings. However, in most states, the only thing you can do to someone who does not consent to a search is... order them to depart the property with the item you want searched.

                            We were discussing this on SPE. Holding them for the police in most states because they refuse consent to search is most likely an illegal detention. This applies for "I want to search your bags" searches, not "I have probable cause to believe you are guilty of retail theft, and we are conducting a retail theft investigation. You are under arrest/detention, and you are not free to leave." (Florida Retail Theft statute allows detention for investigation with summoning of law enforcement to assist the RT investigation. The 5-steps are your PC.)

                            If you have someone who you want to search their bags, and they refuse, about all you can do is throw them out and ban them from returning.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              If you have someone who you want to search their bags, and they refuse, about all you can do is throw them out and ban them from returning.
                              That's what I thought. It's even in the work place. If your work has a policy of your employment that you must let your bag be searched as you leave the building, legally you can not be searched or prevented from leaving if you refuse to show your bag. You can be fired however.
                              I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                              Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                              Comment

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