Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Basic firefighting

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Halatron

    Halon: No longer available to the general public, these extinguishers are very hazardous when used on a fire because of a chemical change that takes place during the heat phase of the fire. The Halon changes to hydrogen fluoride, hydrogen chloride, and hydrogen sulfide, according to the material safety data sheets. During the cool down phase, it changes one more time into phosgene gas. Although Halon was initially thought to absorb oxygen, it actually displaces oxygen in the area of the fire. Halon is clean and requires little cleanup; unfortunately, it's highly toxic. It costs an average of $150/pound.

    Halatron: This extinguisher is a popular replacement for Halon. It is environmentally friendly but still has some of the same hazards as Halon during the heating and cooling process

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    We have a Halon flooding system in our telephone equipment/computer room. 20 years & luckly no accidental dumping. It will be too bad if it does happen. You are no longer allowed to use Halon due to it's effects on the ozone. (You can keep what you have, you just can't refill it). Too bad because it works great on electrical fires. (I've trained with portable Halon extinguishers).

    As for not using water. Guest what is replacing Halon? Water mist. There are now class AC fire extinguishers. It is also being used in flooding systems. It uses demineralized water in a fine mist that does not conduct electricity.

    The Halon dumping story reminded me of the first week I worked here, 25 years ago. We had a Security Director who knew nothing about fire protection. We had a CO2 system to protect our kitchen. (Very ineffective by the way). It used about 20 full sized CO2 cylinders. The Director wanted to see how it worked so he activated it & dumped all 20 cylinders of CO2!!!

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Only an idiot installs a water based fire suppression system in a dedicated server room. Then again, only an idiot fails to install a dedicated HVAC system in a dedicated server room.

    My first mishap with a fire suppression system was working for a defense contractor. The server room was airlocked. Double pressure doors. The pressure doors served two purposes. First, it allowed for the fire suppression system to work. Second, it provided an alcove for someone to run to if the fire suppression system DID go off.

    The system was Halon based. Enough halon was dumped into the lexan-walled "room" that all oxygen was displaced. You had 20 seconds to make it to the alcove, or out of the room all together, before you suddenly had problems breathing.

    The fire system was automatic. Humans could activate the system by slap button, triggering the general alarm and a specific alarm on our state of the art 486 Honeywell Security Management PC in the security office.

    Something activated the alarm. There was no one in the server room. I ran, and I mean ran, to the server room when the countdown on our PC started, as well as the general alarm. I got there 3 seconds before it went off, and watched it go off.

    400,000 dollars of Halon dumped into a server room for no real reason. Trigger fault, maybe, or maybe a spurrious sensor. 400,000 dollars of Halon.

    Leave a comment:


  • EMTGuard
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    That's not so bad. When our fire system goes into alarm at night, we usually get one FE staffed with a guy wearing his pajama tops w/ his fire boots and suspenders. He looks and smells for smoke when on scene and summons the rest of the 'troops' if it's not a false alarm. (Volunteer department w/ limited equipment and personnel)
    I used to WORK for a fire department like that. One paid guy manning the station. Alarm would go off, the paid guy drives a fire engine to the scene, does size up, notifies dispatch whether or not to repage to wake the volunteers and get them moving or if he's headed back to the station.
    Of course, no 39 story hotels around here either.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    That's not so bad. When our fire system goes into alarm at night, we usually get one FE staffed with a guy wearing his pajama tops w/ his fire boots and suspenders. He looks and smells for smoke when on scene and summons the rest of the 'troops' if it's not a false alarm. (Volunteer department w/ limited equipment and personnel)
    But surely no 39 story buildings

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    A building of at least 39 floors & that's all the equipment sent for a fire alarm? A building like that in Montreal is a Category 4. They send 3 pumps, 2 arial units, a protection unit & a chief!
    That's not so bad. When our fire system goes into alarm at night, we usually get one FE staffed with a guy wearing his pajama tops w/ his fire boots and suspenders. He looks and smells for smoke when on scene and summons the rest of the 'troops' if it's not a false alarm. (Volunteer department w/ limited equipment and personnel)

    Leave a comment:


  • IB107
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    A building of at least 39 floors & that's all the equipment sent for a fire alarm? A building like that in Montreal is a Category 4. They send 3 pumps, 2 arial units, a protection unit & a chief!
    true but when all other avail units are out on calls .... in SF the FD is stretched thin

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    A building of at least 39 floors & that's all the equipment sent for a fire alarm? A building like that in Montreal is a Category 4. They send 3 pumps, 2 arial units, a protection unit & a chief!

    Leave a comment:


  • IB107
    replied
    in my tenur of working in security and parking service industries, which is about 5 years combined, I have put out TWO! trash can fires. now heres TWO fun false alarm stories for you,

    in 2002 in SF, at the citicorp building, we were having our fire system overhauled, the electirians where working on the 39th floor, and well some thing happened, and it set off the alarms, as per building regulations the first floor ALWAYS goes off including the basement (this is to insure all enigneers,security are a ware of the alarm, then 4 floors above and 2 below. and during a "alarm" the elevators lock to the floor they are stopped on atm, opening doors, but wont move. well.. it just so happened that the person at the console was stupid and never read the instructions on how to run the inet 4 building managment system, nor how to operate the FCC room. so i was on the exterior in the conservatory where there are no alarms, since it is a outside area, i saw a bunch of ppl leave the building but didnt think anything of it, so i get a called into the lobby, to deal with a alarm that had been going off for 5 mins already, i get a call from our main office asking why he had people from citicorp yelling at them in thier office (note : our office was only 2.5 blocks from the building), we get 2 ladder trucks, 1 engine, and 1 heavy resuce unit showing up, for a false alarm that was caused by electrians working and not letting anyone know to put system in standby


    -------------------------------------------------------------


    now another story, while working at pacific plaza in daly city, we had a sprinkler system malfunction this was a fun one, i was not person on duty when the incident happened but as i was coming on duty FD had just left :P and what happened was there was a server room, full of computer equip, well the servers got to hot, and set off the sprinkler head, which dumped water all over 2 floors by the time "rodger" the s/o on duty found out what happend, the elevator bays got flooded, it was only a 10 story building, but the restro work took weeks, the elevators never worked correctly after that again.

    Leave a comment:


  • ACP01
    replied
    Usually the charges for a False Alarm is only for things like multiple malfuntions, system problems that are not taken care of, smoking setting off the alarm, or any persistant problem but not for good intent or actaul alarms.

    Also one post said the inhouse brigade (in a hotel I think) "checked it out first". In a high hazard structure (due to population) it is better for the alarm to sound and at least alert the occupants that something is amiss.

    The time delay in the FD being alerted can be critical as a fire grows by a factor of ten for each minute it burns. Along with the increased amount of smoke and toxic, read poisonous, gases released it is a must that FD and occupants be alerted at once.

    People in an unfamiliar place need more time to become oriented and funtional in normal circumstances. Now add the confusion of blinding, suffacating smoke, groping for an exit, fear, trying to stay together.....
    Look at it this way would you want your wife and kids to stay above a potentialy deadly fire while it is "checked out first"? I doubt it.
    Last edited by ACP01; 05-21-2006, 09:39 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    The other side of the coin is that the fire department may start charging for false activations. One of our "untrained observer" duties, for some reason, seems to be telling the difference between an involved fire, a smouldering fire, and a false alarm.

    Don't ask me how we're supposed to do this, but you can get in trouble for sounding the alarm "too soon," or for a "false alarm."

    What's the balance point? Especially in a world where they bill you a hundred bucks for a false response.
    It's a tough call. The client where I'm posted has stated that they would rather pay the fine. I understand that their insurance carrier wants it that way too. The last alarm that I had was the result of water leaking into the detector and shorting it out. The FD Lieutenant wanted to write us up for a false alarm. I proved that the leak was the result of unusually heavy rain that day and the alarm was technically not a "false" one because there was a cause; one that we could not prevent. It was a close call as far as the citation was concerned, but he cut us a break after admonishing us to get it fixed ASAP.

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Although I know we should in my hotel we don't call the fire department right away. Past experience has shown that guests unlike office employees that have practise fire drills, tend to panic when the fire alarm goes off or fire trucks show up outside their window. We have a 2 step fire alarm system. The 1st step rings only in non-public areas of the hotel. If an emergency is found by the internal fire brigade THEN the general alarm is turned on. My staff are trained to have the fire department called for ANY sign of a fire, smell of smoke etc. You can not be fined if any of those conditions existed. They are NOT false alarms. Someone tampering with a detection device or soldering besides a smoke detector is & you might be fined.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    The other side of the coin is that the fire department may start charging for false activations. One of our "untrained observer" duties, for some reason, seems to be telling the difference between an involved fire, a smouldering fire, and a false alarm.

    Don't ask me how we're supposed to do this, but you can get in trouble for sounding the alarm "too soon," or for a "false alarm."

    What's the balance point? Especially in a world where they bill you a hundred bucks for a false response.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
    So it is always good to have the FD professionals come out and do a quick inspection.
    Agreed. Even if you find no evidence of a fire and believe that it's a false alarm, let the professionals at the FD respond and confirm your suspicions. If you decide that it's false and you're wrong, get ready for a new career and start practicing for your deposition.

    Leave a comment:


  • Lawson
    replied
    I personally, would always have the FD come out, regardless of how big the fire is, where it is, whats on fire, if it was extinguished or not, etc... (Now obviously if were talking something like a small fire in the middle of an open parking lot, that may be different.

    I have found that a lot of people dont know when a fire is fully extinguished. They stop seeing flames and decide the fire is out. A lot of people dont recognize that fires that have been assaulted with gallons and gallons of water and dry-chemicals to extinguish them, can erupt back into flame without warning. So it is always good to have the FD professionals come out and do a quick inspection.

    Leave a comment:

Leaderboard

Collapse
Working...
X