Basic firefighting

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

On another thread we've been discussing if providing first aid is part of our duties. How about basic firefighting? Or just evacuating?

What are your responsibilties? What type of security do you do? In-house or contract?

At my hotels (in-house) we are part of the fire brigade. At night the Night Auditor mans the front desk where the fire alarm panel is located while Maintenance ( 1 man) & Security ( 1 man) respond to the alarm. Our staff is trained in use of fire extinguishers. We can use the small diameter fire hose but only in a defensive position.

[N. A. Corbier Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close N. A. Corbier]

In Florida, every citizen has a duty to fight or report a fire to the fire department. It is a criminal offense to fail to perform that duty.

Florida's Statewide Security Course teaches the basic principals of operating an extinguisher (on paper, not hands on): ability to read the extinguisher, PASS, and types of fires. They also teach what metal, sodium, and acid fires are. They teach the failure to report or combat a fire statute, as well.

The most important thing they teach is: You are not a professional firefighter, and if the blaze is anything the size of a trash can, your primary job is evacuation and sounding of the alarm.

We are not trained in how fire hoses operate. I'm aware of how they operate because of one post, a three story metal boat with one gangplank. We were taught how to use the hoses to create a path to safety for the officer - we were the only one on the boat at night.

When I worked hotels, I was responsible each hour I walked in for:
- Checking the fire panel for trouble status.
- Responding to any trouble, alarm, or false condition on the fire panel.
- Standing at the front desk with the night auditor took the fire key (electronic) and pump keys (metal) and checked the trouble/alarm problem.
- Nothing else.

The Night Auditor was not trained in firefighting, nor did he carry an extinguisher or anything else. His sole job was to see if he could detect a fire, and that was it. You had 30 seconds to detect terminate the "pre-alarm" before the master fire alarm went off with horns, strobes, and fire department response.

We always, always, always let the fire department respond. We had 400,000 dollars of damage to the second floor because a man took a leatherman tool to a room sprinkler head, activating it. I was standing at the panel, and saw:
"Trouble - Tamper Alarm." (Hey, it says Tamper Alarm...)
"Trouble - Unknown Fault." (I think it died.)
"ALARM - RISER FLOW START" (Oh, hell. Get outside.)
"MASTER ALARM ACTIVATION" (BZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZT)

The ()s were the things I said to the auditor as I stood there reading the panel in the front foyer. He decided, as he was the manager on duty, that he would stay put and give the person actually trained in minor fire suppression the keys and waited outside.

After searching top down, I located a room which was straight out of a U-Boat movie. It looked like a submarine compartment with a hull breach in there.

We determined it was a false alarm, right? No, we determined nothing. Only the fire department could determine that. So, we let the water run, in case there was a real fire and it subsequently set off more sprinklers.

The Hotel's General Manager was pissed off that we didn't turn the fire pump off. The Hotel's new Regional Manager came down and yelled at the GM because only the fire department can turn that pump off.

[EMTGuard Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close EMTGuard]

Professionally, I have no company training in fire supression and my job is to call 911 and get the fire department there quickly.
Personally, before taking this job I worked as a professional firefighter and if I felt I could put the fire out with an extinguisher or hose I have available then I would certainly try.

[crankloud Member Find all posts View Profile Close crankloud]

First aid

Australian regulations state: first aid certificate required for security licence
and just completed fire training through the hospital i work for.

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

Professionally, I have no company training in fire supression and my job is to call 911 and get the fire department there quickly.
Personally, before taking this job I worked as a professional firefighter and if I felt I could put the fire out with an extinguisher or hose I have available then I would certainly try.

Be careful about using the hose. In Quebec we can only use them in a defensive position as per the CSST = the US's OSHA.

[LavianoTS386 Member Find all posts View Profile Close LavianoTS386]

In the hospital I work at (contract) our job is to;

Open the main Lobby door (if locked)

Run to the scene w/ an extinguisher.

Determine the situation.

If the fire is outside of our ability to contain, begin evacuation.

Stand in entry way to direct fire dept to fire.

[Lawson Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Lawson]

Our facility has a very nice fire suppression system. Inside the warehouse, there is a fire extinguisher on both sides of practically each rack, and numerous fire hoses in between. We also have a water pump that is hooked directly to the city's grid, so even if power goes out, our water pump will still likely work. It pumps a lot of water too. Once, someone punctured a 2.5 inch pipe with a forklift and the pressure dropped enough for the emergency pump to kick in and set off the alarm. It took Security approx only 100 seconds from the puncture to system shutdown. In those 100 seconds the system pumped 4,000 gallons of water into the warehouse.

I hear as security supervisor I am going to become a certified "Fire Safety Supervisor" but I dont know what all that is going to entail yet.

[ycaso77 Member Find all posts View Profile Close ycaso77]

Here its basically, pull the alarm, notify base, incipient fire fighting with the trusty extinguisher, run if its too big. We tell them they're not fire fighters, getting out the alarm is the main function unless its a trash can. Still some you can't trust with that....

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

"incipient fire fighting". THANK-YOU! Sometimes working so much in French I don't learn the correct English terms for things!!

[Mr. Security Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close Mr. Security]

Fire Fighting SOP

- Pull fire alarm
- Call 911
- Ensure evacuation is complete
- If safe, use fire extinguisher(s)
- Isolate fire to minimize damage
- Direct fire department to the area
- Notify Client

The 1st two are always completed first. The other steps are based on the size of the fire. We NEVER cancel the FD. Let them make the call for liability purposes.

I am trained to use fire hoses and have actually extinguished practice fires with them. However, that step is best left to a first responder team equipped with SCBA. It is unsafe to use a fire hose by yourself, unless you want to risk blunt force trauma.

[HotelSecurity Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close HotelSecurity]

[QUOTE=Mr. Security
I am trained to use fire hoses and have actually extinguished practice fires with them. However, that step is best left to a first responder team equipped with SCBA. It is unsafe to use a fire hose by yourself, unless you want to risk blunt force trauma. [/QUOTE]

Having no equipment is the reason why the CSST in Quebec (& I believe OSHA in the US) don't want us to use the hoses. We can use them in a defensive mode. For example to keep the fire inside a room as people are passing by in front of the room exiting.

I too have trained as a firefighter & did volunteer work as an auxiliary firefighter in the past. (we assisted the professsional firefighters - placing salvage covers in appartments below the burning appartment, using the hoses from outside the burning building etc - most of the regular firefighting duties except entering the actual unit that was on fire).

[ACP01 Member Find all posts View Profile Close ACP01]

SO fighting fire?

First off as a professional FD Captain let me say that the FIRST thing that should be done upon recieving a fire alarm is NOTIFY the FD!!!!

Security, maintainance, and others have DIED "checking it out first"!

If the site is populated you do better assisting with evacuation and then assisting the FD in whatever way they ask.

Even if the site is unpopulated you are usually better off NOT fighting the fire.
(OK, there are a very few situations where it MIGHT be ok) (a small out building that is empty and you do it from the outside)

Reasons to not fight it are:

What is the material burning? Have you had the proper training to deal with a HAZMAT fire? probably not

Do you have fire turnout gear? probably not

How about an SCBA? and trained with it? doubt it

Just a few things to think about

[N. A. Corbier Senior Member Find all posts View Profile Close N. A. Corbier]

If you've already recieved the alarm, then its most likely too late to do something about the fire, in my opinion. That means that the fire has become involved enough that either someone noticed it, or the automated sensors detected it.

Audible alarms indicate the need to run like hell.

Its when you've discovered the fire and no alarm has been given that the problems start. Ever notice that there's usually an alarm box near the fire extinguisher? Its there for a reason. Feel like grabbing the extinguisher for that trash can? Punch the alarm first. Who knows what's in the trash can, some idiot could of threw away large amounts of styrofoam in it.

And I think we all know what happens when Styrofoam burns. It creates hazardous gasses. I think hydrogen cyanide is one of them, but that may only be through chemical depolymerization.

[crankloud Member Find all posts View Profile Close crankloud]

R.a.c.e

In my hospital we use the RACE system: Remove persons if safe to do so. Alert the proper authorities eg:fire, police, ambulance. Contain if possible Extinguish if safe to do so. We now have an advertisment on television here. The fire brigade is telling youth "get out stay out".

[ACP01 Member Find all posts View Profile Close ACP01]

Good points NA and Crank

My wife worked at a nursing home where they used a variation of the RACE idea.