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  • #16
    The system should show what user changed the report. Example: Report entered into system as a "draft report," is approved by the supervisor after review, and changed to "final report." If not, its kicked back down while still in "draft report" mode and changed.

    Once its saved as a final report, no alterations should be made to it.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      When I type a report I immediately print and sign it upon completion. I have a seperate folder in my desk that only I have a key to. Should my report be changed I will know, and I will then only use the one I wrote in hearings at the school and in court. I will not forawrd a copy of my report that someone changed w/o my know abouts to the prosecutor. I'm not looking like a liar, cause that ruins a person quicker then crap.
      http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3203/darrell29jc.gif

      The FUTURE is MSP...

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      • #18
        Originally posted by darrell
        When I type a report I immediately print and sign it upon completion. I have a seperate folder in my desk that only I have a key to. Should my report be changed I will know, and I will then only use the one I wrote in hearings at the school and in court. I will not forawrd a copy of my report that someone changed w/o my know abouts to the prosecutor. I'm not looking like a liar, cause that ruins a person quicker then crap.
        You've got to understand, we're talking about electronic copies of things here - we don't ever have hard copies of reports. That's why it's so easy to edit them. There's an audit log so there's a record of the edit, but it still doesn't change the fact that it was done.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Jackhole
          You've got to understand, we're talking about electronic copies of things here - we don't ever have hard copies of reports. That's why it's so easy to edit them. There's an audit log so there's a record of the edit, but it still doesn't change the fact that it was done.

          You should always keep paper copies of all reports. If your system crashes then your up a creek w/o a paddle.
          http://img363.imageshack.us/img363/3203/darrell29jc.gif

          The FUTURE is MSP...

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          • #20
            Originally posted by darrell
            You should always keep paper copies of all reports. If your system crashes then your up a creek w/o a paddle.
            If the system crashes, the reports will be restored by backups.

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            • #21
              Originally posted by Jackhole
              If the system crashes, the reports will be restored by backups.
              Considering that most commercial reporting systems easily tie into high-availablity backup systems including off-site storage, as well as continious backup systems...

              In a "real" reporting system, and not just "here's a word document you can fill out," the only time you need a paper copy is to give to the public (who doesn't have access to the system.)

              Printing paper copies of reports is pointless, as if the system crashes, they would have to be manually entered again.

              Most agencies go to paperless reporting to save money. If you're printing a paper report using company ink and paper, then your paperless reporting device needs to be taken away - there's no cost savings and its actually costing the company more money than just having you fill out paper forms.
              Some Kind of Commando Leader

              "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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              • #22
                too easily altered

                For all my security career I have hand written my reports. Except for once at a mall where it was typed up and submitted electronically (and where I printed a copy off for my own files and protection - you just never know what or who is going to happen to the things.), it is always been this way.

                It's great working at a site that has a photocopier because I can copy my report before it's submitted, for my own files and protection.
                I've always done this, too.

                My current s/v asked me last month to start writing reports electronically, to which I responded that I always hand write reports for security reasons - electronic reports are too easily altered, they get lost, they are too easily altered, and then there's issues about proving the ID of the writer - everybody's writing looks the same, you can't put a signature or fingerprint on a electronic, virtual thing, and, most of all, they're too easily altered for people who know how.

                I get a lot of respect around here (from the employer and clients alike) and, while I do not know if other guards have to report electronically, it was decided that I do not.
                I submit on paper and they get typed up by the company's Investigations Division's typists, then saved electronically.

                wjohnc
                who is wondering if his distrust of technology is coming with age
                Rule #1: Go home at the end of the day in an upright position, with everything attached, and with peace of mind for having done the job well.
                "I won't be wronged. I won't be insulted. I won't be laid a-hand on. I don't do these things to other people, and I require the same from them." - John Wayne (in his last movie 'The Shootist')

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by wjohnc
                  who is wondering if his distrust of technology is coming with age
                  It is, you're being too distrustful of technology.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Jackhole
                    It is, you're being too distrustful of technology.
                    Maybe. Maybe not. Technology can be manipulated to mislead those who rely on it. Is there a trail? Likely. But it may take a specialist many hours to find it. With a hard copy, just about anyone can determine if it has been altered. Technology can be a double-edged sword; beneficial in some cases but harmful in others.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                    • #25
                      If your reporting system does not have a secure permissions set, so that no one can alter the data, only authorized users can review it, and only authorized users can revise it with an audit trail...

                      Go back to pen and paper, whoever the vendor is failed you.

                      I fill out many government forms each year using Adobe Acrobat and a RSA SecureID certificate which is on record with the MIT SSL repository. No one is applying my key to a document, nor are they altering it, without a trail.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                      • #26
                        I like my pen and paper reports just fine. They're little notepad sized triplicate forms.
                        "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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                        • #27
                          We just went to such a system where its internet based. You can see it at

                          www.ipcstatsreporting.com (you wont be able to see it unless you are a user)

                          We arent even an IPC mall (used to be until they brought it in-house but we maintain some kind of ties with IPC).

                          The system is awful as of now. One of my Security Officers typed up a report and lost it all when he hit the "update background" button to create the report. IPC is slow to respond to calls or anything.
                          "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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                          • #28
                            I've worked for many companies that enter wrriten reports into the computer. Of course they make changes to what they want into the report. I've always had a issue with this.

                            In my company I, make it a rule of thumb to always make a copy of the report that the officer wrote, and for that officer to keep it for atleast one year. You never know when and if that very report will be needed 4, 5 or 9 months down the road. It's also a policy that only the shift supervisor or command officer can "sign off" on a report, and if the report is insufficient it simply gets kicked back to the officer for modifications.
                            "Nothing in all the world is more dangerous than sincere ignorance and conscientious stupidity." - Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

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                            • #29
                              What isn't clear to me is whether you get the report back to be "signed" electronically after it has been edited. Certainly, only the reporting officer should ever be the final signatory to his own report, and that means signing any revision of the original as well.

                              This is how it works in healthcare, for instance. Only the physician who is ultimately responsible for a medical report can officially sign it - and also, must sign any revisions or addendums, etc.

                              If so, you would then have two options: To re-edit the report back into the form you originally prepared before signing it, and/or to refuse to sign reports where there have been material changes.

                              Admittedly, either option has its drawbacks. If you re-edit the reports, you're having to write at least some reports twice. If you refuse to sign them as they're being edited, you might appear to your superiors to be "obstinate" or "a trouble-maker".

                              Before doing either, the third option of discussing the situation with your supervisor would appear to have the least amount of downside. Be sure you have specific examples when/if you do this.

                              There's always one controlling principle it's good to live by in the corporate world: Choose your battles carefully, because some of them will cost you dearly in the long run, even if you "win" them in the short term.
                              "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

                              "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

                              "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

                              "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

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                              • #30
                                We had an excellent program (federal funded) at the PD I worked. We would audio tape record all of our crime reports during our shifts. At the end of the shift we would hand over our tape to a transcription secretary and they would then process it. Before we left we would review and sign our reports. It was pretty "snifty" for the times. After the grant expired we decided to keep the system.

                                This method was used by everyone - partol officers, detectives, JV bureau...all.
                                Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                                Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                                Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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