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  • bigdog
    replied
    Thats the reason I dont make citizens arrest that often lack of DT training and lack of knowledge of criminal procedure.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Up here, I asked about the tactics courses and that. You have to have instructor approval, and the instructors require you be already through the ASCJ course before taking the "Associate of Applied Science" courses.

    The other problem is that the DAAT program is geared for law enformement officers specifically, and relies on their state authority for many of the priveliages that they are bestowed.

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  • 1stWatch
    Member

  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Seriously though, our local PD may provide cuff training for s/o's at no charge or at a nominal fee...
    If they aren't so gracious as to provide that training at no cost it may be possible to take the same course they go through at a local college or university. I remember taking the PPCT course at a community college here in 2001. It was the same course the police officers went through and they were in the same class as us. The PPCT course was an individual course.

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  • 1stWatch
    Member

  • 1stWatch
    replied
    Originally posted by knotquiteawake
    This is why we take a 40 hour course on "Powers Of Arrest." Sure, its not comprehensive in any means, but it gives us a much better understanding than is gained from the 8 hour guard card class. Also, beyond the study material, the instructors have a LOT of really good information from real life experiances (most are retired police, sheriffs ect...).
    That is the kind of course that should be mandatory in each state for security before carrying handcuffs and being armed in my opinion.

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  • knotquiteawake
    Member

  • knotquiteawake
    replied
    This is why we take a 40 hour course on "Powers Of Arrest." Sure, its not comprehensive in any means, but it gives us a much better understanding than is gained from the 8 hour guard card class. Also, beyond the study material, the instructors have a LOT of really good information from real life experiances (most are retired police, sheriffs ect...).

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    .....
    Just give them the paper law class and send them out with cuffs. They'll figure out how they work, they've watched COPS.
    Rats!! You mean there is more to it than putting the cuffs on as tight as possible?

    Seriously though, our local PD may provide cuff training for s/o's at no charge or at a nominal fee. Even so, there is no way my security company is going to take on that liability. Actually, some of their guards have problems with reporting on time and in uniform. I can't blame them for not trusting them with a task like that.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Amen!! That's why my company says: "Just don't do it." That's the reason we are not issued cuffs. High profile sites might be an exception to this policy.
    Your company also doesn't want to pay for the training involved in performing such duties.

    I've asked around. Basically, a simple class is all it'd take. A lawyer and a cop could prepare the class, it'd take about 2 hours to complete.

    But, that's two hours you have to pay someone to train, pay everyone to attend, and then another 4 hours to teach them basic DT, another 2 hours to teach them handcuffing... Oh, wait, I'm thinking again.

    Just give them the paper law class and send them out with cuffs. They'll figure out how they work, they've watched COPS.

    Leave a comment:

  • Mr. Security
    Senior Member

  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Amen!! That's why my company says: "Just don't do it." That's the reason we are not issued cuffs. High profile sites might be an exception to this policy.

    Leave a comment:


  • darrell
    replied
    Originally posted by talon
    Anyone who has never been torn a new one by a Defense Attorney hasn't lived. You better have all of your ducks in row.

    BTDT my butt bleed for a month afterwards to..

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  • talon
    replied
    Anyone who has never been torn a new one by a Defense Attorney hasn't lived. You better have all of your ducks in row.

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  • talon
    replied

    You hit the nail on the head.

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  • Tennsix
    replied

    Leave a comment:

  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Tennsix
    Also, to totally derail this thread, who thinks that if your employees are going to be arresting people, they should have to learn law, rules of procedure, and the legal standard of determining probable cause? Including what elements are, etc.
    I agree 100%
    Thread rerailed. Now, where the heck do we get the training curriclium? Most states don't actually train security for security's sake. The Department of Consumer Protection regulates the security industry, and you get training to save clients from evil companies.

    Look at Virginia and other states that the state's police training and standards commission control the security industry. You get a bunch of rules that mandate training, and a bunch of laws mandating quazi-police powers for security.

    Look at Florida and other states that the state's consumer protection division regulates the security industry. You get a bunch of rules that are stopgap in nature (Security may only use amber lights, even though white is legal under the traffic code; licensed guards may only use force to protect people, never property; you may only carry a .38 revolver, even though off-duty you can carry a .50 caliber on your CCW) and a bunch of laws reducing the rights of citizens in that vocation (see above).

    California, of course, is weird, and has special peace officer status for just about everyone from a park ranger to a campus security officer, even if they aren't peace officers commissioned in the name of the state.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tennsix
    replied
    Also, to totally derail this thread, who thinks that if your employees are going to be arresting people, they should have to learn law, rules of procedure, and the legal standard of determining probable cause? Including what elements are, etc.
    I agree 100%

    Leave a comment:

  • N. A. Corbier
    Senior Member

  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by Tennsix
    Indiana grants that same authority to all citizens.

    Indiana Criminal Code 35-33-1-4
    Any person
    Sec. 4. (a) Any person may arrest any other person if:
    (1) the other person committed a felony in his presence;
    (2) a felony has been committed and he has probable cause to believe that the other person has committed that felony; or
    (3) a misdemeanor involving a breach of peace is being committed in his presence and the arrest is necessary to prevent the continuance of the breach of peace.
    (b) A person making an arrest under this section shall, as soon as practical, notify a law enforcement officer and deliver custody of the person arrested to a law enforcement officer.
    (c) The law enforcement officer may process the arrested person as if the officer had arrested him. The officer who receives or processes a person arrested by another under this section is not liable for false arrest or false imprisonment.
    This is the standard I found in case law. Felony in presence, Felony PC, breach of the peace in presence.

    I can do everything that this "person who is not a peace officer but has their powers" may do. I don't understand the law, it sounds like its designed to... I don't know what.

    What's CA's Private Arrest statute say? I don't have my copy of the BSIS Private Arrest Course handy, but I could of thought it said a person (Not just a Security Officer/Guard, anyone) may arrest for bop, felony in presence, and felony after determining PC.

    Also, to totally derail this thread, who thinks that if your employees are going to be arresting people, they should have to learn law, rules of procedure, and the legal standard of determining probable cause? Including what elements are, etc.

    Leave a comment:

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