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  • aka Bull
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    So, what we're seeing is that the IFPO is incorrect, and that law enforcement officers have a higher on-duty death rate than security officers? Or is the IFPO using a weighted average from the 1990s for these claims?

    Many people are using this IFPO document like Gospel. If its wrong, we're going to all look like damned fools.
    I agree - we will look like fools - making it even harder to improve the world of private security. That or we have to assume under reporting or incorrect categorization by the reporter for the information used by the BLS.

    There are more statistical reports on the BLS website that I haven't had time to review yet. Plus I want to see their data for non-fatal incidents like assaults etc.

    As I wade through more of them I'll post the highlights.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    So, what we're seeing is that the IFPO is incorrect, and that law enforcement officers have a higher on-duty death rate than security officers? Or is the IFPO using a weighted average from the 1990s for these claims?

    Many people are using this IFPO document like Gospel. If its wrong, we're going to all look like damned fools.

    Leave a comment:


  • aka Bull
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    This has been posted to several law enforcement forums, and universally thrashed as "intrepretive" or "utter fiction."

    Does anyone know of any other data supporting the IFPO's position?

    N.A. - This is an area I have recently begun researching for data fon or use in discussing several points our officers want to discuss with our hospital leadership. While it is the first document I came across it has slowly lead me towards other information - one being this publication (in pdf) from the US Dept of Justice - Office of Justice Programs from a study pusblished in 1998 by the Bureau of Justice Statistics on Workplace Violence 1992-96.

    It primarily deals with non-fatal violence, but if you jump to page 7 of the pdf there are a couple of charts relating to homicides wherein the graphs show law enforcement personnel and security personnel among others. Security isn't far behind law enforcement by much.

    http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/wv96.pdf

    As I find more I'll post the links.

    I do believe in having as many views as I can find and trying to get a clear picture from them.

    Added To Post: I just read the Bureau of Labor Statistics report for 2004 for fatal occupational injuries.

    Homicides: Law Enforcement: 45 - Security Guards: 32
    Last edited by aka Bull; 05-22-2006, 04:51 PM. Reason: Added To Post

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by aka Bull
    Peruse the article here:

    http://www.ifpo.org/articlebank/death_by_homicide.html

    I think you'll find it surprising, I did.
    This has been posted to several law enforcement forums, and universally thrashed as "intrepretive" or "utter fiction."

    Does anyone know of any other data supporting the IFPO's position?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bill Warnock
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Excellent article. I had no idea so many s/o's perished on 9/11, and I didn't realize that so many guards are killed yearly. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I'm going to be especially careful now. Hope my wife doesn't find out about this. She will want me to find a safer job.
    I agree with you Mr. Security. aka Bull, thanks for bringing it to our attention. One more sad item to add to my guide.
    Enjoy the day,
    Bill

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by aka Bull
    Peruse the article here:

    http://www.ifpo.org/articlebank/death_by_homicide.html

    I think you'll find it surprising, I did.
    Excellent article. I had no idea so many s/o's perished on 9/11, and I didn't realize that so many guards are killed yearly. Thanks for pointing it out to me. I'm going to be especially careful now. Hope my wife doesn't find out about this. She will want me to find a safer job.

    Leave a comment:


  • aka Bull
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Granted, there are plenty of s/o's who suffer the same fate. However, I believe such dangers, especially loss of life, are much more common for those in LE. Police officers usually patrol a greater area than security officers, conduct traffic stops on individuals who could be killers, and are regularly dispatched to violent domestic situations. You have unarmed security in this country, but rarely, if ever are the police unarmed. Why so? It's extremely dangerous work.
    Peruse the article here:

    http://www.ifpo.org/articlebank/death_by_homicide.html

    I think you'll find it surprising, I did.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Of course not. If you took a survey about whether or not traffic laws are necessary, most individuals would readily agree that they are. Yet, many of these same individuals regularly run stop signs, speed, and drive aggressively. Basically, they agree that we need laws and enforcement, but not when it impacts them in an inconvenient way.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    I'm regulary dispatched to violent domestic situations, have Hells Angles check in as guests & have had mob killers staying in the hotels. I'm unarmed & usually work alone
    Get plenty of insurance.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mr. Security
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    .........
    Our counterparts over the pond are not armed......
    That's because their civilians are generally not armed to the teeth with guns like they are over here. If that changes, the Bobbies will eventually be armed just like their counterparts over here.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Tennsix, I hate to say it, but I saw no perceptional change after 9/11 in public opinion of security. It even got worse, with people going, "They're not real cops, who cares about them. Its the real cops who were the heros!"

    To the tune that we never heard about a NY state proclimation relating to the deaths of many security officers in the WTC complex during 9/11. But nobody would shut up about NYPD. FDNY loses half their department, and they don't even get that much press.

    It saddens me to thik that you need a media relations expert and a union to get your story out. Especially when it involved the initial effort to save lives.

    Leave a comment:


  • Tennsix
    replied
    Originally posted by HotelSecurity
    I'm regulary dispatched to violent domestic situations, have Hells Angles check in as guests & have had mob killers staying in the hotels. I'm unarmed & usually work alone

    Leave a comment:


  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Granted, there are plenty of s/o's who suffer the same fate. However, I believe such dangers, especially loss of life, are much more common for those in LE. Police officers usually patrol a greater area than security officers, conduct traffic stops on individuals who could be killers, and are regularly dispatched to violent domestic situations. You have unarmed security in this country, but rarely, if ever are the police unarmed. Why so? It's extremely dangerous work.
    I'm regulary dispatched to violent domestic situations, have Hells Angles check in as guests & have had mob killers staying in the hotels. I'm unarmed & usually work alone

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Actually, I'd wager that the police are armed because they yelled for many years about being armed, always, and ensured that laws were enacted for them to be armed.

    Remember, a "Special Agent" of the FBI is armed. Why are they special? FBI agents were originally not armed. It took an FBI Director to create a special category and have Congress pass a law allowing that category to be armed.

    Our counterparts over the pond are not armed. Many police agencies that were armed were extensions of the military. Over here, their being armed is a truly American concept.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by Mr. Security
    Granted, there are plenty of s/o's who suffer the same fate. However, I believe such dangers, especially loss of life, are much more common for those in LE. Police officers usually patrol a greater area than security officers, conduct traffic stops on individuals who could be killers, and are regularly dispatched to violent domestic situations. You have unarmed security in this country, but rarely, if ever are the police unarmed. Why so? It's extremely dangerous work.
    Uh oh...Please don't let Talon read this one

    Leave a comment:

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