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ever been threatened with arrest after making an arrest?

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  • HotelSecurity
    replied
    To answer the original question, yes, twice.

    The first time I caught a guy up on a floor of the hotel trying to sell drugs to high school kids. I brought him to his room on another floor, told him to pack & leave. He shoved me. I tackled him, handcuffed him & called the police. There were no witnesses. The police didn't believe he had shoved me. (Didn't help that he was accusing me of shoving him!) Luckly they did a record check. He had a long record. They went to the garage & found the truck he came in. Turns out he stole it from a farm outside of Montreal. He had robbed the farmers. When the police outside of town went to check on them they found them tied up in their farm house. I was not arrested.

    The 2nd time I was dealing with a hysterical prostitute in front of the hotel. (I never found out what she was upset about). As I tried to help her she grabbed my glasses & threw them down the driveway where they bounced & broke into thousands of pieces. She jumped into a taxi & tried to get away. I pulled her out. She fought. I handcuffed her & held her against the wall waiting for the police. I was new. I got too close. She bent down with her hands handcuffed behind her back & grabbed onto a very sensitive area of my body. She wouldn't let go . (I wanted more children ) So with an open hand I hit her on the back of the head, knocking her into the wall. Just as the patrol car pulled up. They did not see what she had been holding onto, only me banging her head into the cement wall. I still don't know how I was able to get out of that one!

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by histfan71
    I'm sure your right, but I have never heard of this. Do you remember the names of those companies? I once worked as a security guard for a HUGE hospital and medical school that had multiple facilities spread throughout the city. In fact, the mayor and all the city council members worked for the hospital in some capacity.

    We (the security department) had to transport psych patients from the main hospital, where the ER was, to the psychological hospital, which was about 2 miles down the road. By policy, we were not allowed to handcuff these patients, even though a physician placed them on a valid 72-hour psychological hold. To make matter worse, only two of our patrol cars had prisoner cages, and those two cars were assigned to supervisors. All the other patrol cars had no cages. It would not take a whole lot for a psych patient who was suicidal and who had already been deemed to be a danger to himself and others, to reach over me, grab the steering wheel, and steer the patrol car into the opposite traffic lanes.

    That is one of the major reasons I left that job. When I questioned a supervisor about this practice he told me that something like the scenario I described above had never happened and therefore never will. I hope he was comfortable with all that sand covering his head.
    I wish I did, unfortunately its anaecdotal.

    ... That's insane. At least the ambulance can strap em down via the psych hold order (attending writing a perscription for chemical or physical restraints).

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    I've heard of security companies doing this in CA, but those security companies are now usually Transit Police, or whatever they did with their agency after 9/11. College campuses also came to mind.
    I'm sure your right, but I have never heard of this. Do you remember the names of those companies? I once worked as a security guard for a HUGE hospital and medical school that had multiple facilities spread throughout the city. In fact, the mayor and all the city council members worked for the hospital in some capacity.

    We (the security department) had to transport psych patients from the main hospital, where the ER was, to the psychological hospital, which was about 2 miles down the road. By policy, we were not allowed to handcuff these patients, even though a physician placed them on a valid 72-hour psychological hold. To make matter worse, only two of our patrol cars had prisoner cages, and those two cars were assigned to supervisors. All the other patrol cars had no cages. It would not take a whole lot for a psych patient who was suicidal and who had already been deemed to be a danger to himself and others, to reach over me, grab the steering wheel, and steer the patrol car into the opposite traffic lanes.

    That is one of the major reasons I left that job. When I questioned a supervisor about this practice he told me that something like the scenario I described above had never happened and therefore never will. I hope he was comfortable with all that sand covering his head.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    [QUOTE=histfan71][QUOTE=N. A. Corbier]In CA, you can lawfully transport your prisoner to a jail, then book them in yourself. You had best be prepared to fill out a booking report, arrest affidavit, and the rest of the paperwork, or your arrest may be deemed invalid due to procedural issues.

    It may be legal to do this, and I am not sure that it is, but not a very good idea. Several years ago there was some sort of argument between school board members during a school board meeting. It was either in Lancaster or Palmdale, which are about 40 miles north of Los Angeles, I forget which. I will see if I can find any other information about the incident.

    The members of the school board decided to place the one board member who was causing all the commotion under citizen's arrest for either disturbing the peace or causing a disturbance on school grounds, both of which are misdemeanors. Instead of calling the police the board members decided to transport the suspect themselves directly to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's station in Lancaster. The school board members found themselves under arrest for kidnapping and false imprisonment. I do not know if anyone actually got convicted, but I will try to find some further information since my curiosity as been aroused.

    It is very likely that any security guard who tries to transport a prisoner to jail or to the courthouse himself will find himself facing similar charges. It is best to always call the police and let them do any transporting necessary.
    A lot of the things we can do are never a good idea. I think that you'd need a pre-existing agreement with the county sheriff to transport your prisoners under private arrest, so that the jail is ready to recieve your employees, and your employees are well versed in transfer of correctional custody issues.

    I've heard of security companies doing this in CA, but those security companies are now usually Transit Police, or whatever they did with their agency after 9/11. College campuses also came to mind.

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  • Guest's Avatar
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    In CA, you can lawfully transport your prisoner to a jail, then book them in yourself. You had best be prepared to fill out a booking report, arrest affidavit, and the rest of the paperwork, or your arrest may be deemed invalid due to procedural issues.
    It may be legal to do this, and I am not sure that it is, but not a very good idea. Several years ago there was some sort of argument between school board members during a school board meeting. It was either in Lancaster or Palmdale, which are about 40 miles north of Los Angeles, I forget which. I will see if I can find any other information about the incident.

    The members of the school board decided to place the one board member who was causing all the commotion under citizen's arrest for either disturbing the peace or causing a disturbance on school grounds, both of which are misdemeanors. Instead of calling the police the board members decided to transport the suspect themselves directly to the Los Angeles County Sheriff's station in Lancaster. The school board members found themselves under arrest for kidnapping and false imprisonment. I do not know if anyone actually got convicted, but I will try to find some further information since my curiosity as been aroused.

    It is very likely that any security guard who tries to transport a prisoner to jail or to the courthouse himself will find himself facing similar charges. It is best to always call the police and let them do any transporting necessary.
    Last edited by histfan71; 04-18-2006, 08:07 PM.

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  • knotquiteawake
    replied
    i know in my case if the Sheriff won't transport we have to cut the guy loose. But they are usually good about honoring our arrests and transporting if the crime is serious enough. Most trespassers, unless we can show previous FI cards are cut lose or their parents are called to pick up.

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  • Tennsix
    replied
    What happens if the police won't or can't transport?

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  • locknid
    replied
    In our ARS codes it states that once we have them under arrest we call the police to transport them to a magistrate. It is against our policy to transport prisoners, i don't know whether it is against the law or not. Most of the employees are not equiped to transfer people in their vehicles.

    If you want to see what I carry to work just check out the post in the equipment section. along with that is a level IIA vest, soon to be IIIA when I get the money. I have used everything one my belt except for the gun thankfully.

    I also carry a digital voice recorder because sometimes(not often) police are iffy about whether or not I got consent to search, so then i bust out the recording and show how stupid the guy with a baggie of coke and a meth pipe was to let me search him.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by jimmyhat
    I work with S.C.OP's, so the threat of making false arrest has not come up (yet) since we started the program in 2004.

    This is what we deal with quite often: "You arrested him, he's your prisoner, why did you call us"?
    That'd be my question. Your the special, he's your prisoner, I'm not going to fill out your booking sheet and arrest affidavit...

    Do the guys you train have transport units, or do they have to beg/command the local SO to transport?

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  • LavianoTS386
    replied
    My post orders say nothing about misdomeanors but they do say "ensure felony violators are arrested." That being said we do not carry handcuffs or weapons of any kind, so I don't think arresting a person who comitted a felony is something that I'm going to worry about executing personally.

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  • locknid
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    BTW, most security officers have never had to make a private arrest, either due to company policy or client request.

    This doesn't come up that much.
    wow, huh we must be an exception then. we are encouraged to make arrests if you feel comfortable doing it, it is not mandatory though. most of our clients are apartment complexes which are in bad areas, poor, and have high crime rates. I have made arrests from simple trespassing(wife beater kept coming back) to burglury, to large amounts of dope. we do consentual searches and all that fun stuff, most are armed posts. At the nicer properties I tend to stay hands off because they usually complain about that stuff moreso.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    BTW, most security officers have never had to make a private arrest, either due to company policy or client request.

    This doesn't come up that much.

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  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by ycaso77
    Let me see if I understand this- you can detain only for shoplifting in your area. But how do you arrrest someone without detaining them? It sounds similair to apprehension in the military, where military police detain a suspect until an nco or commisioned officer authorizes the formal arrest of the subject for specified charges. Basically it sounds like you make a complaint as a witness to responding officers based on a citizens arrest law. The detaining part is still throwing me off though.
    Detainment, for the purposes of investigation pursuant to developing probable cause for an arrest, is the provience of public law enforcement. Some states authorize a retail store employee or agent to take a person into detainment to develop probable cause for the retail theft arrest, or for the purposes of recovering merchandise through civil action (Give it to me, we let you go.)

    This is not an arrest, because you have not determined enough information to form probable cause yet. If you have determined probable cause, your state may not authorize you to make a citizen's arrest for the misdemeanor / non-breach of the peace crime of "petit theft (retail redefinition)." Therefore, a specfic statute must authorize you to make a detainment, and authorize the police officer to make a misdemeanor arrest based on your investigation (which would normally be considered heresay and not enough for a misdemanor arrest by a LEO.)

    In CA and AZ, and several other states, a private person has codified arrest powers which enable them to make arrests in the name of the state (citizen's arrest), issue lawful orders compelling the offender to accompany them to a magistrate, and use force to ensure complaince with the lawful order (actually physically arresting them.)

    Since the police transport to the jail and present to the magistrate, most folks just turn them over to the cops.

    In CA, you can lawfully transport your prisoner to a jail, then book them in yourself. You had best be prepared to fill out a booking report, arrest affidavit, and the rest of the paperwork, or your arrest may be deemed invalid due to procedural issues.

    The thing, of course, is that a private person's arrest offers no civil or criminal immunity to liability, whereas a public law enforcement officer's arrest has the full immunity that the state provides.

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  • bigdog
    replied
    your lucky our citizens arrest powers are based on caselaw that almost no cop knows about. It is for breach of peace or felonies. Getting a cop to agree a non leo to arrest in FL is hard as hell. THe court calls it a citizens arrest but the laws call it detain. Oh and unless its a felony they try to pull the false imprisonment card. Until i pull out the case law and they say "hmm i didnt know that."

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  • bigdog
    replied
    ok according to what hes saying detain is hold for investigation, and if its the wrong guy or something let him go . arrest is , in his state , im guessing, is you assume the role of arresting officer the pd just transports. its like california the police officer has to approve it as a valid arrest.
    Last edited by bigdog; 04-18-2006, 01:18 AM.

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