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Should S/O's Have More Training/Authority etc ?

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  • Should S/O's Have More Training/Authority etc ?

    The question is should S/O's have more training, powers and options for self defense such as pepper spray and other weapons. What kind of training would you like to see given defense tactics etc ?

    Stay Safe All

    I would like to see us get more training and even some self defense training. I think Ohio Dept of Homeland Security is working on training for S/O's so many hrs a yr. But they are still working on it.

    As far as self defense goes i would like to see more security allowed to carry pepper spray and other weapons.

    As far powers i think we should have a little more powers. I would also like to see better laws made to protect us to make sure if something happens to us that the proper justice is given.
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  • #2
    Since in Canada no private people are allowed to use it as a defensive weapon against another person I am 100% for us being able to use it. To control it however it should be licensed.
    I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
    Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by HotelSecurity
      Since in Canada no private people are allowed to use it as a defensive weapon against another person I am 100% for us being able to use it. To control it however it should be licensed.
      A license to carry pepper spray?

      I'm sorry, but to me, that kind of government control and liberal-minded thinking is scary as hell.

      But I guess a license would at least allow you to obtain it and use it if necessary, I just think it is ridiculous that even the most basic and non-lethal of defensive weapons you are not allowed to use. Here (the U.S.) we have civilian contract security carrying everything, sometimes fully automatic weapons. Hell, I carry a gun, backup gun, Taser, baton, and pepper spray. Between me and my partners, we're about equipped to start World War III.

      In short, elect a new government and put the people back in power. I make it sound easy, huh?
      10-8

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Taser
        A license to carry pepper spray?

        I'm sorry, but to me, that kind of government control and liberal-minded thinking is scary as hell.

        But I guess a license would at least allow you to obtain it and use it if necessary, I just think it is ridiculous that even the most basic and non-lethal of defensive weapons you are not allowed to use. Here (the U.S.) we have civilian contract security carrying everything, sometimes fully automatic weapons. Hell, I carry a gun, backup gun, Taser, baton, and pepper spray. Between me and my partners, we're about equipped to start World War III.

        In short, elect a new government and put the people back in power. I make it sound easy, huh?
        We have a conservative government in power. It was elected in January. It is against the registration of long guns etc = to your Republican Party. I voted against them
        I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
        Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by S/O245
          I would like to see us get more training and even some self defense training. I think Ohio Dept of Homeland Security is working on training for S/O's so many hrs a yr. But they are still working on it.
          I say this all the time. You can have as much training as you want, but you have to be willing to go out and get it yourself. Do the training, keep the records, and then make a case to your boss that you're serious about this stuff, and maybe the company will be willing to pay for additional training.

          Originally posted by S/O245
          As far as self defense goes i would like to see more security allowed to carry pepper spray and other weapons.
          One way to make this so, across the board, is for everyone to start refusing to work for companies that don't provide defensive weapons. There's a million reasons for this. Not the least of which is the fact that a company that is willing to send you out on the street, defenseless, obviously cares nothing about your safety. Why work for a company like that?


          Originally posted by S/O245
          As far powers i think we should have a little more powers. I would also like to see better laws made to protect us to make sure if something happens to us that the proper justice is given.
          You already have the powers of a private citizen, the most powerful authority in the land. Am I right in assuming what you really want is more respect? That which may be derived from more power? That sets off all kinds of alarms in my head.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by jimmyhat
            One way to make this so, across the board, is for everyone to start refusing to work for companies that don't provide defensive weapons. There's a million reasons for this. Not the least of which is the fact that a company that is willing to send you out on the street, defenseless, obviously cares nothing about your safety. Why work for a company like that?
            The problem is that there are always people willing to work no matter the conditions. Example 2 of my hotels pay $14.00+/hour.We are In-House. The going rate for Contract Security is $12.50/hour. One of my hotels (same majority owner but different partners) pays $10.00/hour. People still apply & work there.
            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jimmyhat

              You already have the powers of a private citizen, the most powerful authority in the land.
              I disagree. Citizens; in most cases; cannot issue Traffic Infractions, committ misdemeanor arrests, enforce the vehicle code, etc... stuff that Law Enforcement can.

              I am an avid supporter of making Security more state regulated ( i.e. more training requirements, etc... ) and thusly increasing enforcement powers to conduct a misdemeanor arrest or enforce the traffic code on your property and adjacent streets, (ie. stopping someone who is whizzing up and down the street outside your property) utilizing law enforcement tactics.
              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
              "The Curve" 1998

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by jimmyhat
                I say this all the time. You can have as much training as you want, but you have to be willing to go out and get it yourself. Do the training, keep the records, and then make a case to your boss that you're serious about this stuff, and maybe the company will be willing to pay for additional training.
                I think he means that the states should be mandating the training, and providing it free of charge or something along those lines. Most contract security folks do not know that there are training systems available to them, they think only the police can take such training. Others know, but believe the company should pay for it automatically.

                Originally posted by jimmyhat
                One way to make this so, across the board, is for everyone to start refusing to work for companies that don't provide defensive weapons. There's a million reasons for this. Not the least of which is the fact that a company that is willing to send you out on the street, defenseless, obviously cares nothing about your safety. Why work for a company like that?
                Too many people are willing to work for chump change for this to happen. Don't forget that many people take the job thinking its really easy, and that they just sleep or sit on their rear end all night.

                Originally posted by jimmyhat
                You already have the powers of a private citizen, the most powerful authority in the land. Am I right in assuming what you really want is more respect? That which may be derived from more power? That sets off all kinds of alarms in my head.
                Most folks want some kind of arrest authority. They don't know they already have it via common law or statutory law. Others want additional powers such as carrying firearms (I should decide when I carry on what site), and other things.

                I'd love for legislation to pass in Wisconsin to allow private citizens to carry tasers. Notice I did not say "security guards" or "security officers," because if only security is authorized to carry it, its a lot easier for that to be overturned later on by another legislature.

                Laws I agree should be passed include: Obstructing a security officer in performance of lawful duties, Battery Redefinition on Security Officers, Depriving a Security Officer of weapon or communication. All three should be felonies. Taking the radio of a security officer is a simple theft. Taking the radio may deprive both the officer of his safety, and the public of the officer's means to raise an alarm.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by S/O245
                  The question is should S/O's have more training, powers and options for self defense such as pepper spray and other weapons. What kind of training would you like to see given defense tactics etc ?
                  I am all for guards getting more training. Even more important is getting CONTINUING training. How many of us know guards who went and got, let's say baton training, but then never drew his baton again. How effective do you think he is going to be when he needs to use his baton. Skills, and especially defensive skills, diminish over time if you do not constantly practice and keep up with changes in tactics, technology, laws, etc. Something that always scared me was a cop, or even a security guard, who carried an out-of-date penal code. A lawsuit waiting to happen.

                  Originally posted by S/O245
                  I would like to see us get more training and even some self defense training. I think Ohio Dept of Homeland Security is working on training for S/O's so many hrs a yr. But they are still working on it.
                  California just enacted a 40-hour basic training requirement for security guards that went into effect in July 2005. The new law also requires 8-hours of "in-service" training every year. Training in defensive tactics, OC, baton, and firearms are optional and do not count toward the 40-hour basic training requirement but do count toward 8-hour "in-service" training.

                  Originally posted by S/O245
                  As far as self defense goes i would like to see more security allowed to carry pepper spray and other weapons.
                  I agree, but only if the the security guard has the proper training, licenses, and background checks. Many of the states, including California, already have these requirements in place but it is frightening how many states do not. Any joe-blow off the street can buy himself a security guard badge and uniform and go to work as a security guard without any screening or training whatsoever. Scary thought.

                  Originally posted by S/O245
                  As far powers i think we should have a little more powers. I would also like to see better laws made to protect us to make sure if something happens to us that the proper justice is given.
                  Again, I might be in favor of getting expanded powers if the industry tightens up it's professionalism. At present, however, I am solidly aganist that idea. More laws to protect us is a good idea, and Florida has already taken some positive steps in that regard.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                    I disagree. Citizens; in most cases; cannot issue Traffic Infractions, committ misdemeanor arrests, enforce the vehicle code, etc... stuff that Law Enforcement can.
                    You can enforce the vehicle code., let's go through it by the numbers. You have the authority to make a difference. Take the Vehicle info., document any and all witness info. then go down to your local magistrate, and swear out a warrant.

                    Now here's the response we're gonna see. "My company doesn't let me go off site, or pay me overtime to see the magistrate after my shift". Right, that's probably about 90% of us.

                    The company that won't let you do that, surely is not going to pay for it's security staff to receive radar and lidar training. That company certainly won't allow it's officers to detain individuals for the purpose of issuing traffic citations. That won't company won't provide insured transport vehicles for those unruly fire lane violators who turn misdemeanor parking violations into felony assaults on security officers.

                    Just for my own curiosity, what traffic violations to you wish to have the authority to enforce? Because the list of what needs to be done in order to have that authority is long and distinguished.

                    As far as Arresting for misdemeanors............it's not as easy as every rookie security officer tends to think. Taking one 8 hour class, and carrying shiny hinged cuffs does not-an-arresting-officer make. For reasons not unlike what I mentioned above.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      In my state, a private citizen cannot make traffic arrests.
                      I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                      -Lieutenant Commander Data
                      sigpic

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Wackenhut Lawson
                        I am an avid supporter of making Security more state regulated ( i.e. more training requirements, etc... ) and thusly increasing enforcement powers to conduct a misdemeanor arrest or enforce the traffic code on your property and adjacent streets, (ie. stopping someone who is whizzing up and down the street outside your property) utilizing law enforcement tactics.
                        I believe I see your point. Certainly, using more proactive tactics, backed by state authority, would ultimately serve the community better.

                        I'll not argue against your point, here, because I really do agree with you. I believe training for security should be absolutely rigorous.

                        The authority issue, like N.A. pointed out, comes down to the S/O having an understanding of their effectiveness as citizens first. Once the S/O is able to use that already existing system effectively, then we can talk about expanding the role of security.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Tennsix
                          In my state, a private citizen cannot make traffic arrests.
                          In every state, citizens can file complaints. All you need is general info. on the suspect, and some time to use the system as it was meant to be used. Civilly.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                            Too many people are willing to work for chump change for this to happen. Don't forget that many people take the job thinking its really easy, and that they just sleep or sit on their rear end all night.
                            Absolutely true, But.......
                            If the educated folk move towards the more squared-away companies, then the WBSC's are left with the bottom-feeders. Those WB companies will fold, and the open contracts will go to better companies who in turn hire better security officers. I know we go through this often, but the fantasy will never see the light of day unless we press our peers into taking some action on their.

                            I'm also very much aware that sometimes beggars can't be choosers. I'll never tell someone working to feed their kids to give the finger to their boss just because that company doesn't issue M-4's and up-armored patrol vehicles with FLEER systems. I am saying, that someone who is badly in need of employment should not jeopardize their own safety in order to make better profits for their can't-be-bothered employers.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by jimmyhat
                              In every state, citizens can file complaints. All you need is general info. on the suspect, and some time to use the system as it was meant to be used. Civilly.
                              Ok, that is different than an actual traffic arrest. I understand your point now.
                              I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                              -Lieutenant Commander Data
                              sigpic

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