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  • #16
    Originally posted by Taser
    A Marine, eh? Why weren't there any Lance Corporals? Or Master Gunnery Sergeants?

    But couldn't a non-military or pseudo-military structure work just as well?

    Officer -> Officer (with some type of FTO status) -> Supervisor -> Head Supervisor -> Office Manager -> District Manager -> President

    That's just something that comes to mind. You could even make a few levels of "officer" such as O1, O2, O3, etc.

    My point is, it's just a title. You could easily have a rank structure that goes like this:

    Namby Pamby -> Sugar Plum Fairly -> Sparkly Princess -> and so on...

    I understand that the police are paramilitary and therefore may benefit from a paramilitary rank structure. I think a lot of us try to draw a clear line between security and law enforcement and when you copy their rank structure it only makes us look even more like we're trying to be cops.
    Lets see... MPOs were Lance Corporals, but I never, ever used that term.

    There was, at last check, a Staff promoted to Gunnery. He tried to demote himself, then lateral himself to First Sergeant (He was Army), and finally accepted that he was a Gunnery Sergeant.

    I look at it like this. Everyone gets their rank structure from the military. Security isn't copying the police any more than the police are copying the military.

    After all, there are police departments with ranks such as Inspector, etc. But for the majority, the line officers are corporal, sergeant, staff, etc.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by EMTGuard
      I want to be a Sparkly Princess one day.

      I'm stuck at Sugar Plum Fairy now...but mark my words...one day I will become a Sparkly Princess!
      10-8

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      • #18
        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
        I look at it like this. Everyone gets their rank structure from the military. Security isn't copying the police any more than the police are copying the military.
        This is true, but why should we follow suit? Why not distinguish ourselves from law enforcement? I'm not saying we have to follow McDonald's management structure or anything, but trying to model ourselves after law enforcement too much is just harmful to us in the end and alienates us from people who would choose to take issue with it.

        The police are a paramilitary organization. They attend academies for long periods of time that are often lightly militaristic and sometimes very militaristic. There is a chain of command within the department. Paramilitary basically means that they operate in a fashion that is somewhat similar to the military, so it makes sense that they have a paramilitary rank structure.

        Security does not operate similarly to the military. You could argue that they operate similarly to the police...so that would make us parapolice I guess...or paraparamilitary. Either way, what I am saying is there are degrees of separation. We're not the same, why should we copy them? For the most part police departments do not copy the military exactly in rank structure...so why should we copy the police exactly in rank structure?

        It may be splitting hairs. Like I said, it's just a title. But you see a lot of security guards out their with gold oak leaves or butter bars on their collar when they were hired two weeks ago. We try to copy the police, but as an industry average, we are so so so clearly not.
        10-8

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        • #19
          Rank

          The FD uses rank and I don't think of them as paramilitary. I think it's acceptable for security to use rank. As far as using Major, if a security company like Pinkerton GS is large enough, I can see that happening. I have never seen a large security company use colonel though. That's pushing it.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Mr. Security
            The FD uses rank and I don't think of them as paramilitary. I think it's acceptable for security to use rank. As far as using Major, if a security company like Pinkerton GS is large enough, I can see that happening. I have never seen a large security company use colonel though. That's pushing it.
            Captain, Engineer, Batallion Chief, etc, etc.

            Not very militaristic.
            10-8

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            • #21
              I think my boss called himself a Colonel after being called "Major A**hole" enough. Now we call him "Colonel Sanders".
              "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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              • #22
                Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
                We have Campus Security Officers, Campus Safety Officers, 7 Corporals, 3 Sergeants an assistant director and a director.
                Director, there we go. That's a better title that wasn't coming to me earlier that could be used in place of Manager.
                10-8

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Taser
                  Captain, Engineer, Batallion Chief, etc, etc.

                  Not very militaristic.
                  They are not a paramilitary organization, not even close.
                  Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by 1stWatch
                    .... Now we call him "Colonel Sanders".
                    That's a good one.
                    Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Mr. Security
                      They are not a paramilitary organization, not even close.
                      Uhhhh, right. Exactly my point. Is Batallian Chief a military rank? Do they have lance corporals and warrant officers?

                      No.

                      The comparison is not valid and has no basis.
                      10-8

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                      • #26
                        With appx. 150 officers we have no real "rank" structure. Field officers are grade "B" no matter your duties. Probationary dispatchers and Central Station Operators are "C" grade. Fully qualified are "D" grade. Lead Officers are "E" grade. The only visual difference is Leads have gold badges. Oddly enough the chain of command goes officer>lead>central station operator. Then theres those pesky management types who are rarely heard from and seen even less.
                        I've seen our director 3 times since Christmas and have been thinking of posting his photo so the new guys will let him in his office. They thought of rank for pay grade designation to tell who was who, but too many cooks spoil the soup. By the time the original proposal came back there were 15 kinds and colors of stripes for everything from time on the job, bike officers, FTO's, tech officers, and that one guy who everbody has thats been here since they built the place.
                        I tossed the whole thing and shudder to think of any new ideas.
                        Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Taser
                          Uhhhh, right. Exactly my point. Is Batallian Chief a military rank? Do they have lance corporals and warrant officers?

                          No.

                          The comparison is not valid and has no basis.
                          I know of a few FD's that use the police rank system, and I remember the Air Force firefighters used FD ranks even though they were military. Rank can't be thought of as a strictly "military" perogative. The boy scouts have a rank system, nobility has the same, and the corporate world definitely has one. What ever you call it, the terms merely identify your place within the hierarchy of your organization. There was a certain hotel in Biloxi with a 5 man security force and the boss had 4 stars on his collar. Perhaps he was waiting for the expansion to finally come.
                          Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by ycaso77
                            There was a certain hotel in Biloxi with a 5 man security force and the boss had 4 stars on his collar. Perhaps he was waiting for the expansion to finally come.
                            Exactly! It's the stuff like that that irritates me. Did they address him as General? I mean, come on!
                            10-8

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                            • #29
                              Sure is irritating, as if one star wasn't enough to show he had an over active Patton complex. The citation ribbons over his badge were interesting too. And he wondered why I never took him seriously every time I met him after that.
                              Old age and treachery will defeat youth and enthusiasm every time-

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                              • #30
                                I once worked for a company (in the early to mid-90s) that had a rank structure similar to this:

                                Officer-Sgt-Lt-Cpt-Major-Field Inspector-Inspector-Colonel-Manager

                                ...or something. Seems a lot of the office staff just had badges made with all sorts of titles on them. I was made a sergeant at one site, apparently for showing up on time for 3 months straight. Meant absolutely nothing to me.

                                We had a guy who retired as the security director for a local government's transit service, he brought the company the guard contract for the transit facilities and was hired as a Major...

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