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  • #16
    Originally posted by Michael Ledgerwood
    This may be true in your state but here in WA ignorance is not an excuse. You are considered trespassing whether or not anyone informs you of such.
    So, your permitted to arrest for trespassing upon detection? In Florida, you MUST inform a person they are trespassing, and give them the opportunity to leave before a law enforcement officer can make an arrest for the crime of trespassing.

    The only way that a LEO can arrest without the property owner present is for ordinance violations where the city makes signage the "notification."

    Now, if its in a structure or conveyance, and that structure or conveyance is not open to the general public, its not trespassing, its burglary.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mr. Security
      What baffles me about some of these WBS companies is that they retain guards who have been caught sleeping several times, show up late or not at all, fail to wear the proper uniform, carry a personal firearm to an unarmed site, are plain lazy and generally unprofessional/incompetent. Then, when they have someone who cares and tries to enforce the post orders, they give them flak for the complaints they receive from the individuals who are guilty of client policy violations.

      It's almost as if they WANT you to be blob who shows up and doesn't want to do anything.

      This is again the result of dollar over quality. When you pay people minimum wage (which is what alot of security companies pay here), you get poor quality workers.

      McDonalds, 7-11, and other retail establishments pay more, provide benefits, etc. Anyone who is truely professional and competant will not work for minimum wage, at an all night job, with limited or no benefits.

      This really is the problem. You wouldn't believe the garbage that answered my call for employees a couple months back. 25 got application, several others were turned away after initial contact.

      Out of those 25, there were three that I would hire, and even then, 2 of them would need to be motivated, as they wouldn't likely be able to do it themselves.

      Comment


      • #18
        My recommendations and even my suggested actions within my own business are as follows:

        a) Know your standing orders. Are you supposed to approach, or just observe and report? Some site owners want a presence or proactive service, but not a reactive one.

        b) notes, notes, notes. BEFORE you approach anyone for anything, get detail of them, their vehicle, plates, etc etc etc.

        -TAKE notes AS you talk to these people. When they see you taking notes, often times they will be more forthcoming, OR less problematic..

        -AFTER the contact, write more notes about the contact, and stick to FACT only, NOT opinion. NEVER put your opinion in your notes, because that will just ruin you if it ever gets to court.

        c) record the event in its entirety if you can. (We have in car video, so this is easy). Keep a copy of the recording, DO NOT submit this to anyone, and if you have to protect yourself, allow your company to hear the tape, but do not submit the original (this applies to your own personal recording device).

        d) think before you speak and act. Always, always, always talk to the public as if the entire world is watching you. "Anything you say can, and will be used as evidence..." THis applies to you too.
        Last edited by Warren; 03-19-2006, 06:42 AM.

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Warren
          This is again the result of dollar over quality. When you pay people minimum wage (which is what alot of security companies pay here), you get poor quality workers.

          McDonalds, 7-11, and other retail establishments pay more, provide benefits, etc. Anyone who is truely professional and competant will not work for minimum wage, at an all night job, with limited or no benefits.

          This really is the problem. You wouldn't believe the garbage that answered my call for employees a couple months back. 25 got application, several others were turned away after initial contact.

          Out of those 25, there were three that I would hire, and even then, 2 of them would need to be motivated, as they wouldn't likely be able to do it themselves.
          In the US, we must provide anyone who wishes an application one. However, we are only required to hire the most qualified applicants.

          In other words, anyone who walks through my door I must give an application to. To refuse to do so is discrimination in the workplace, and the EEOC lives for that.

          But I only have to hire the most qualified applicants based on their background, credit, application data, and testing. Since most of the current company operations are IT based over the internet, I routinely hire people based off of what they can do, not what they look like or who they "are."
          Some Kind of Commando Leader

          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
            In the US, we must provide anyone who wishes an application one. However, we are only required to hire the most qualified applicants.

            In other words, anyone who walks through my door I must give an application to. To refuse to do so is discrimination in the workplace, and the EEOC lives for that.

            But I only have to hire the most qualified applicants based on their background, credit, application data, and testing. Since most of the current company operations are IT based over the internet, I routinely hire people based off of what they can do, not what they look like or who they "are."
            I think that we are supposed to do this also. This is a CYA (cover your ass), situation. Generally when I post the ad, I post with a phone number, and the phone call is the application. I do ask questions in regards to their experience and reasons for leaving, etc.

            The next step, if they pass the initial phone interview, is the application package. Mine is big...the standard application/resume questions as well as associates and family lists (to assist in the background checks). If they pass that, they get the ethics and integrity questionairre/interview...65 questions in regards to their lives...drinking, drug use, traffic violations, all the way up to questions in regards to prostitution, other criminal activity, etc.

            The interview is video taped, and re-analysed by our statement analysis expert, and then they are either interviewed or rejected.

            This method isn't popular with most applicants, but then again, I want to know that IF I ever have to go to court, I can say that Ive done the best I could to ensure a good applicant....after that my training will be reviewed, and so on.

            With all that being said, Ive decided that Im getting out of the security guarding business here...the competition is stiff, and companies just will not pay the little extra premium for the better guard. You wouldn't believe what we have for guards around here....

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
              ....Now, if its in a structure or conveyance, and that structure or conveyance is not open to the general public, its not trespassing, its burglary.
              It would be criminal trespass here:

              Sec. 53a-108. Criminal trespass in the second degree: Class B misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree when, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in a building.

              (b) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a class B misdemeanor.

              Sec. 53a-103. Burglary in the third degree: Class D felony. (a) A person is guilty of burglary in the third degree when he enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

              (b) Burglary in the third degree is a class D felony.
              Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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              • #22
                Originally posted by histfan71
                The only thing agressive, proactive, preventative security work gets you these days is an appointment at the unemployment office.
                Exactly!!! And these WBS companies KNOW it. They will hold onto an account regardless of how unethical it may be. Money is always the deciding factor, not what is right.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  Money is always the deciding factor, not what is right.
                  The security industry summed up in a single sentance. I love it.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Mr. Security
                    It would be criminal trespass here:

                    Sec. 53a-108. Criminal trespass in the second degree: Class B misdemeanor. (a) A person is guilty of criminal trespass in the second degree when, knowing that he is not licensed or privileged to do so, he enters or remains in a building.

                    (b) Criminal trespass in the second degree is a class B misdemeanor.

                    Sec. 53a-103. Burglary in the third degree: Class D felony. (a) A person is guilty of burglary in the third degree when he enters or remains unlawfully in a building with intent to commit a crime therein.

                    (b) Burglary in the third degree is a class D felony.
                    For Florida, prima fiscae (someone spell that right) evidence for "intent to commit a crime therein" is stealthy entry. Basically, if they walk in and don't announce themselves, its a burglary.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by histfan71
                      The security industry summed up in a single sentance. I love it.
                      Money, Money, Money.

                      I can provide you with protection for 18.50 an hour.
                      I can provide you with a human being who will fill out a log for 10.00 an hour.
                      Some Kind of Commando Leader

                      "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                        Money, Money, Money.

                        I can provide you with protection for 18.50 an hour.
                        I can provide you with a human being who will fill out a log for 10.00 an hour.
                        Filling out the log part might be a little difficult for some. What they need are completed logs that can be selected to match the day's events. Most of them say "All secure" anyhow. Just write your name in, the date, and you're all set.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Mr. Security
                          Filling out the log part might be a little difficult for some. What they need are completed logs that can be selected to match the day's events. Most of them say "All secure" anyhow. Just write your name in, the date, and you're all set.
                          I've seen those. I am not at liberty to comment further under non-disclosure agreement with my previous-previous employer. Granted, that employer was bought, but still, it isn't nice to talk ill about the terminally stupid.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Mr. Security
                            What about just monitoring the trespasser, jot down the plate, and take no action unless the situation gets serious?
                            Our site instructions in patrol specifically state to "notify trespassers of their crime and instruct them to depart." This goes against the fact that our company says we should not notify people of crime since we are not LE.

                            Oh, by the way, I was let go last night for something "completely unrelated" to that incident. 0130 and they let me go. LOL

                            Also, voice recorders and video helps to show which side of the law the officer is on. The company I worked for basically stated that we are solely liable for our actions on duty, and they do not provide that equipment, nor can we use it while on duty. I found that out the next day when, while following site instructions, notified someone they were trespassing with my voice recorder on my duty belt. I gave them the, "I must inform you that this conversation is being recorded. If you do not want your voice recorded during this conversation you are free to depart the property at will. DO you consent to having our comversation recorded?"

                            I stated in the report that I notified someone who was shooting up on a site that they were trespassing and drugs were not welcome there as it was a crime. My supervisor called me on it and I played the recording...

                            "You are carrying unauthorized duty gear?! Who approved that voice recorder? Is it in use right now?"
                            Last edited by jakeslife; 03-20-2006, 01:55 AM.
                            Liability is never above officer safety. Do what you must to make sure you go home safe.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
                              I can provide you with a human being who will fill out a log for 10.00 an hour.
                              He may be able to fill out the log for $10.00 an hour, but it will not be in English. Here in SoCal you need to pay a minimum of $12.00 per hour to get a guard of decent quality. Decent quality is defined as a guard who looks sharp and professional in his full uniform, will follow the post orders, and can write reports in legible and understandable English.

                              In addition to my "in-house" boys and girls I contract with a small local guard company to provide guards when one of my people goes on vacation, calls off sick, etc. I specified in the contract that the guard be paid a minimum of $10.00 per hour. Over the past two years I had one contract guard get caught stealing from the client, one who threatened to kill one my shift supervisors when she caught him asleep at his post, one who walked off post when his paycheck was not delivered to him on time (mind you he worked for the contract company, I had nothing to do with his paycheck), and one who slipped and fell at work and tested positive for drug use. This is the kind of "quality" $10.00 per hour gets you. By the way, the company bills me $19.00 per hour to pay the guard $10.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by jakeslife
                                "You are carrying unauthorized duty gear?! Who approved that voice recorder? Is it in use right now?"
                                This type of mentality is why I'm really choosy about who I will and won't work for in this day and age. Some companies, especially small ones, are run by control freaks who think they control every move you make, yet they don't really know what they're doing themselves.

                                I've had the voice recorder discussion with an employer in mall security who was so convinced they were illegal. I no longer work there, thank the Lord, but I routinely carry one now. The patrol companies I've worked for here don't mind me carrying any sort of gear, as long as it's legal and I'm certified to carry it, since I own the gear. There were other employers that prohibited things like body armor vests and cell phones. What a retarded concept.
                                "We appreciate all the hard work you've done, the dedicated hours you have worked, and the lives you have saved. However, since this is your third time being late to work, we are terminating your employment here."

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