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Do You Think This Is Grounds For Termination?

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  • SecTrainer
    replied
    Whether we might think this comment was sufficiently egregious to justify termination or not, there are other considerations. Employees cannot be terminated quite so easily without incurring liabilities.

    Unless this organization has a written policy specifically covering such matters AND providing for instant termination, I have little doubt that corporate counsel would advise the organization to step through its normal disciplinary process in dealing with this incident rather than to indulge in a knee-jerk reaction.
    Last edited by SecTrainer; 08-15-2008, 01:50 PM.

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  • CameraMan
    replied
    Originally posted by The Enforcer View Post
    As for the rest of the posters, would you, to whom it may concern, want your young children exposed to what I have described in my first post? Or for you site supervisors out there - how would you feel if one of your male officers came to work in a dress and had lipstick on? With this in mind, I am not at all apologetic for what I said but I still shouldn't have said it. A big reason for saying it was that at the time I was having some angry, personal thoughts, when all of a sudden the subject came up and I was in a bad enough mood to say precisely what I thought. I sometimes find it difficult not to let my work life and my personal life overlap but it is an issue that I personally need to address.
    I don't think you got what most people here were trying to say.

    It doesn't matter what our personal feelings on the matter are. All that matters is what the law is. I could be for, against, or indifferent to gay people, just like I can be for, against, or indifferent to blacks, Hispanics, Jews, Koreans, Catholics, Cleveland Indian fans, or diabetics. Law says I have to treat them the same. Law also says that if you create a hostile workplace for your fellow employees by expressing your opinions on any of the above (except for fans of the Cleveland Indians, who are not a legally protected group) and I as the employer do not do anything about it, your coworker can sue me. Did you read the link I posted?

    Do I have problems with indiviuals? Certainly I do. Are there groups of people whom I don't like? Maybe I do and maybe I don't, the point is, if you work for or with me, you'll never ever find out, because at work I treat everybody the same and never express my opinions in a manner that may be interpreted as hostile.

    We aren't arguing about wether or not your opinion was correct or incorrect- I have some thoughts on the matter but I don't see how it would be prodcutive to air those thoughts- but only trying to tell you how the law works and how not to get your stupid self fired.

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  • The Enforcer
    replied
    Originally posted by Son-Of-A-Pilot View Post
    You seem to be missing the point of this entire thread... which is odd since you are the one who started it in the first place. You asked if we thought your slur about the man's sexual persuasion was grounds for termination. You didn't ask us if we liked off-color humor. If you want o know about that then I suggest you post another thread. If you are looking for us to justify or excuse your bad behavior then you should probably look elsewhere.

    I am perfectly comfortable enough with my own sexual persuasion to not have a cow or worry about a gay guy who wanders into view. And as far as a male security officer coming to work with a dress on, I am not sure that is even an appropriate analogy since we wear uniforms, so what some dude wears on his off time is really none of my concern.

    I am glad to see that you admit the comment was wrong, however you seem to fail to understand WHY it was wrong. Based on that and your own admission that you have anger management issues, I would suggest you stay away from a security career. If you can't handle a guy who happens to be gay, then what are you going to do when something really serious happens?

    Peace out!
    First of all I am not missing the point of the thread, which I started. I was simply having discussions about the event in question with the other posters, answering whatever question they had about it in detail. It's not like I'm trying to take a poll of everybody's opinion. I am just interested in hearing everybody's feedback and responding to it. Sorry if I'm getting too elaborate.

    And the places I work, "something really serious" happens all the time and I always handle it in a timely and professional manner.

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  • Son-Of-A-Pilot
    replied
    Originally posted by The Enforcer View Post
    I am happy to know that somebody on this board was finally bold enough to admit to having similar views to my own. As far as the policy, I am not sure how it is worded but it is generally accepted that only women can carry any type of purse into the shopping area.

    As for the rest of the posters, would you, to whom it may concern, want your young children exposed to what I have described in my first post? Or for you site supervisors out there - how would you feel if one of your male officers came to work in a dress and had lipstick on? With this in mind, I am not at all apologetic for what I said but I still shouldn't have said it. A big reason for saying it was that at the time I was having some angry, personal thoughts, when all of a sudden the subject came up and I was in a bad enough mood to say precisely what I thought. I sometimes find it difficult not to let my work life and my personal life overlap but it is an issue that I personally need to address.
    You seem to be missing the point of this entire thread... which is odd since you are the one who started it in the first place. You asked if we thought your slur about the man's sexual persuasion was grounds for termination. You didn't ask us if we liked off-color humor. If you want o know about that then I suggest you post another thread. If you are looking for us to justify or excuse your bad behavior then you should probably look elsewhere.

    I am perfectly comfortable enough with my own sexual persuasion to not have a cow or worry about a gay guy who wanders into view. And as far as a male security officer coming to work with a dress on, I am not sure that is even an appropriate analogy since we wear uniforms, so what some dude wears on his off time is really none of my concern.

    I am glad to see that you admit the comment was wrong, however you seem to fail to understand WHY it was wrong. Based on that and your own admission that you have anger management issues, I would suggest you stay away from a security career. If you can't handle a guy who happens to be gay, then what are you going to do when something really serious happens?

    Peace out!

    Leave a comment:


  • Badge714
    replied
    Originally posted by The Enforcer View Post
    I am happy to know that somebody on this board was finally bold enough to admit to having similar views to my own. As far as the policy, I am not sure how it is worded but it is generally accepted that only women can carry any type of purse into the shopping area.

    As for the rest of the posters, would you, to whom it may concern, want your young children exposed to what I have described in my first post? Or for you site supervisors out there - how would you feel if one of your male officers came to work in a dress and had lipstick on? With this in mind, I am not at all apologetic for what I said but I still shouldn't have said it. A big reason for saying it was that at the time I was having some angry, personal thoughts, when all of a sudden the subject came up and I was in a bad enough mood to say precisely what I thought. I sometimes find it difficult not to let my work life and my personal life overlap but it is an issue that I personally need to address.
    The security guard showing up in a dress isn't the same thing. Any officer wearing a dress and/or lipstick is out of uniform and in violation of policy.
    And, as far as exposing my kids to things, my opinion isn't too far from yours. But, that is my opinion. As a security officer, I have to keep those opinions to myself while in uniform. It's sometimes hard to separate our personal lives from work, but it something we all have to do. The consequences of what we say and do can be severe and sometimes very costly.

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  • The Enforcer
    replied
    Originally posted by The Lord of the Keys View Post
    I just wanted to add my opinion to this matter. I am from the NE but what I personally find acceptable is closer to you. However your behavior was completely unprofessional and the comment that you made would get you fired at many companies. We all encounter many different people in our line of work. Some of these people we may find offensive for whatever reason, but we have to be professional and treat everyone the same as we go about our duties.
    As for your stores policies, does it explicitly say only women may bring in a purse or are you reading "woman" into a policy that says purses and is this policy in writing?
    I am happy to know that somebody on this board was finally bold enough to admit to having similar views to my own. As far as the policy, I am not sure how it is worded but it is generally accepted that only women can carry any type of purse into the shopping area.

    As for the rest of the posters, would you, to whom it may concern, want your young children exposed to what I have described in my first post? Or for you site supervisors out there - how would you feel if one of your male officers came to work in a dress and had lipstick on? With this in mind, I am not at all apologetic for what I said but I still shouldn't have said it. A big reason for saying it was that at the time I was having some angry, personal thoughts, when all of a sudden the subject came up and I was in a bad enough mood to say precisely what I thought. I sometimes find it difficult not to let my work life and my personal life overlap but it is an issue that I personally need to address.

    Leave a comment:


  • Badge714
    replied
    Originally posted by sgtnewby View Post
    Well, here in Minnesota (not New England), I would have fired you too.... And, not only will I tell you where I am from, but I will show you who I am...
    Especially in Minnesota! They don't call Minneapolis the "San Francisco of the Midwest" for nothing!

    And, it's NOT a purse, it's a "man bag!"

    I would have terminated on this offense also. I learned the hard way after keeping a guard on that made sexual comments to women at one of my accounts just because the client told me that he didn't want the guard fired, he just wanted him to knock it off. I gave the guard a written warning and 3 days off, with termination on the next offense.
    Guess what? Yep, 3 days after he finished his suspension, a female employee complained to me about the guard making sexual comments. So I fired him. You would think that a guy who was a Deputy Sheriff in the Bay area of California for 7 years would know better.
    The woman who complained to me directly told me exactly what this idiot was saying. If I knew the kinds of things he was saying on the first complaint, not only would I have fired him, I would have kicked his filthy a** all the way back to California!

    I have learned that some people just have trouble controlling their mouth, and if they did it once they'll do it again. I won't get burned a second time.

    P.S. After your year is up, find another job and start over. This stain will follow you within the company for years, trust me.
    Last edited by Badge714; 08-15-2008, 11:43 AM.

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  • Mr. Chaple
    replied
    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
    If this is the first incident of this kind, and assuming that you have been a satisfactory employee in every other way, I don't happen to share the opinion that you should be terminated over this incident since the derogatory term was not voiced to the individual in question. However, you'd be given a "last chance" warning and would undergo some sensitivity training for sure.
    I think I would just as soon get terminated.

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  • Curtis Baillie
    replied
    Originally posted by The Enforcer View Post
    That's exactly right and yes people steal from dollar stores all the time. Only one guard is assigned per store and it is difficult to watch everybody so measures such as leaving bags up front have to be implemented.
    I agree, shrink in "dollar" stores is higher that the averave for retailers in general. Employing guards in them is not commomplace. I suggest you were employed as a deterence - not to detect and detain thieves. If you actually detain shoplifters - I'm interested in hearing how much training you have had.

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  • psycosteve
    replied
    this is an issue of time and place

    the reason for leanicy with you is that your boss realised that due to your inexperence with dealing with the public . I would say I am not guilty of having sometimes racist homophobic and generaly sexist thoughts . but I feel I am an EEOC asshole with the ability to hate everybody not on race or sexual creed but cause there assholes . with dealing with the public I have learned restraint. you may have been highered cause you were a warm body but remember they will keep you cause of your ability to do the job. when on site you have to be on your best behavior . think about this would you tell black jokes in the hood ? would you jewish jokes at a synagon ? if the answer is yes then security is not for you . chalk this up to a one time only pass and NEVER do it again .

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  • tanko
    replied
    The Enforcer,

    Although you have only seven months in and only one late arrival, you are just as expendable as the next person. Don't think otherwise. Remember, we are security and we are expendable.

    You need to learn how to use the store policy a way to justify your actions, and nothing more.

    When you say terms that appear to be derogatory, they can then be used to justify someone's opinion that your are a bigot. Regardless of you being a bigot or not, people will perceive this and will try anything to justify their assumptions.

    I have lots of people who I work with that think I'm intolerant of others on the sole basis that I grew up in small community in the countryside. Where I work tends to think they are 'tolerant' of others, with exception of people who they dislike. Because of this, I had to try harder than anyone else to never be in a conversation or situation that may appear I'm intolerant of others.

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  • The Lord of the Keys
    replied
    I just wanted to add my opinion to this matter. I am from the NE but what I personally find acceptable is closer to you. However your behavior was completely unprofessional and the comment that you made would get you fired at many companies. We all encounter many different people in our line of work. Some of these people we may find offensive for whatever reason, but we have to be professional and treat everyone the same as we go about our duties.
    As for your stores policies, does it explicitly say only women may bring in a purse or are you reading "woman" into a policy that says purses and is this policy in writing?

    Leave a comment:


  • souperdave
    replied
    Short & simple....the policy is discriminatory, and you are a bigoted profiler. My advice would be to take a little of each paycheck and put it towards pre-paid legal aid......you're gonna need it someday.
    Last edited by souperdave; 08-15-2008, 02:43 AM.

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  • The Enforcer
    replied
    Originally posted by mjw064 View Post
    i am assuming that the leave the bag at the front rule is to cut down on shoplifting? do people really shoplift from a dollar store anyway?
    That's exactly right and yes people steal from dollar stores all the time. Only one guard is assigned per store and it is difficult to watch everybody so measures such as leaving bags up front have to be implemented.

    Leave a comment:


  • mjw064
    replied
    i am assuming that the leave the bag at the front rule is to cut down on shoplifting? do people really shoplift from a dollar store anyway?

    Leave a comment:

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