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  • wisconsinite
    replied
    LOL...OK histfan...the Arabs get the three-strike rule...THEN get their hand lobbed off...if at all...hehehe.
    Also, I believe, the only way "the citizens of this country have put such stringent restrictions on the police"....is by electing panzy weak politicians
    that write panzy weak laws, that the police, and the judicial system have to endure. So, yes, we've gotten what we deserve, so-to-speak. But The Patriot Act is a step in the right direction, for terrorism anyway. There should be a Patriot Act-like document to address the thugs and "hoodlums" too.
    I also agree with you, we should make a thread seperate from this. Entitle it, "Crime & Punishment", or something. Decriminalize drugs and prostitution?
    Like Amsterdam? What's THEIR crime stats?

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by wisconsinite
    For example, in Arab nations, if you so much as shoplifted, your hand would be chopped off.
    I once worked with a guard who was born in Jordan, but who grew up in Saudi Arabia, before immigrating to America. We once had a lengthily conversation on this exact subject.

    According to my friend, in Saudi Arabia anyway, a convicted thief will not get his/her hand chopped off until they have been convicted of theft at least three separate times. Even then, the punishment was rarely carried out.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Glad to hear that you are not one of those "Sovereign Citizen" folks.

    I have lived in poor and high-crime areas most of my entire life. I came from a working class family, and right now I may just barely be lower-middle-class, to put a label on it. My family and myself have been victims of crimes, including violent ones. As I said in another forum, the people get the level of policing they deserve.

    It is the citizens of this country who have put such stringent restrictions on the police. If the consequences of those stringent restrictions are weak enforcement of the laws, overcrowded prisons, and crooks who are out of jail and back on the street before the cops even finish writing the arrest report, then so be it. We have gotten what we deserve.

    As I said in my previous post, I do not think the solution to our crime problem is more aggressive law enforcement and giving up some freedoms in exchange for security. I think that will result in tyranny and the loss of the freedoms I hold dear.

    Do I have the solution? No, but I have ideas I think will help. First, decriminalize drug use and possession. Note I said decriminalize and NOT legalize . There is a big difference between the two. Decriminalize prostitution also. Move policing away from being a "para-military" type organization. Major reforms to our justice and corrections systems. Just to name a few. I don't want to go into details on this thread, but maybe I will start a new thread on this topic to hear everyone else's ideas

    Leave a comment:


  • wisconsinite
    replied
    histfan, I browsed that website you linked, and, albeit interesting...I just don't fall into that category. I am not anti-government, nor am I a racist.
    To the contrary, I am pro-government. All I am saying, is the government is not effectively enough enforcing their laws to ensure compliance. For example, in Arab nations, if you so much as shoplifted, your hand would be chopped off. it's a damn effective deterrant. Americans can have their free speech, freedom of religion, the right to assemble, so on and so on.
    But if you want probable cause and proof beyond a reasonable doubt...drive through your nearest ghetto, turn on any news channel, read a newspaper. It is littered with teenagers and adults alike, that are gangbanging, robbing, murdering, drug running, driveby-shooting...I can go on and on...it's the decay of society.
    histfan, if YOU are willing to swap your freedoms for high crime...how will YOU feel when your parents, siblings, children, friends, fall victim TO those very same crime rates. ME, i'm willing to swap some of my freedoms in exchange for some safetys. It's what the Patriot Act is doing right now. I'm gonna be really pissed off if my family gets murdered at the hands of a strungout thug with an AK-47. As I commented before, the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights...is outdated, for the times we live in.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I always thought it was amusing that few opposed the People's Chinese Police, even though they were unarmed and rarely used force.

    Why? Because if you resist them, the People's Army will back them up, and most likely with armor. They may also round up your family, since being an enemy of the people may be hereditary.

    Leave a comment:


  • Guest
    Guest replied
    Originally posted by wisconsinite
    What are the crime statistics in China, Sri Lanka, Cuba, Phillipines, Thailand? Lesser than America's statistics, that's for sure.
    Yes, the crime rate is lower in those countries you mentioned, and America can lower its crime rate significantly if we adopt the tactics of those governments you cite.

    Those tactics will include such things as no habeas corpus, secret trials and secret police, no probable cause, no proof beyond a reasonable doubt, no free speech, no freedom of religion, basically the entire Bill of Rights will be tossed out the window. Any and all opposition to the government will be ruthlessly and brutally crushed. Governmental power would be placed in the hands of a sole individual, who will probably proclaim himself "Dictator for Life" if not "Emperor". I could go on and on.

    Do you want to live in such a society? I sure don't. If the price for the freedoms we enjoy (and take for granted) is a comparatively high crime rate, I am willing to pay.

    Wisconsinite, you sound like one of those "Sovereign Citizen" believers. Any truth to it? For more information on the "Sovereign Citizen" and other extremist organizations, click here: http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM....ked=4&item=sov

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    To us, "hoodies" are worn by gang bangers, and those who emulate the "thug" lifestyle. Logical progression.

    Leave a comment:


  • wisconsinite
    replied
    State governments are only responding to the effect of gangs, and not the cause, when they write criminal street gang laws with catchy phrases like "tags", "riders" or "special circumstances". When riots break out in cities, the police and/or National Guard sweep in wearing full riot gear armed with tear gas canisters, rubber bullets, batons, body armor, high-pressure water hoses, and any other non-lethal goodies to restore order. Our Founding Fathers were all Christians, and wrote our Constitution based on religion. They likely had no clue how their dear country would turn out. Maybe, just maybe, we need tough enforcement tactics. Tactics to go in with force, and neutralize them. But that's "unconstitutional", right? Perhaps our precious Constitution is outdated. Outdated by 230 years! "Hold on!", you say? "That's nothing short of tyranny, communism, and dictatorship!" What are the crime statistics in China, Sri Lanka, Cuba, Phillipines, Thailand? Lesser than America's statistics, that's for sure. Laws arent doing the job. The criminal element laughs at and disregards those so-called laws. And if law enforcement is lucky enough to catch and prosecute offenders, they get sent to a prison in America that's already grossly overcrowded.

    On a footnote, how did this thread evolve from talking about a hooded sweatshirt in the U.K. to talking about gangs and stuff?

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    I know in Florida that there is a "Criminal Street Gang" law that indicates that any group of 3 or more persons engaged in criminal activity are a gang.

    Leave a comment:


  • ff000525
    replied
    Originally posted by wisconsinite
    Personally...I think gangs are the first element in American society and culture that led ultimately to crime. Gangs date back to even the 19th Century. If Uncle Sam ever gets tough enough to abolish them, crime would plummet. Anyhoo...i'm babbling.
    Getting back the the U.K. "hoodie" innuendo. That's just another fine example of U.S. and U.K. english language differences. For example, if an Englishman asks an American if he can spare a fag, the American just might pop the Englishman in the mouth. LOL
    It would be nice if the Federal Goverment could figure out a way to abolish gangs, but I don't know if that could be done legally (Freedom of Choice, Expression, Speech ect.) I do know that a lot of States have laws pertaining to gangs and gang violence, even WI. Certian acts such as homocide, rape ect. carry "riders" that make jail time longer if done in a group or for a gang. I know that Little Rock, AK also passed a lot of laws pertaining to gangs such as no hanging out in groups of more than four, gang signs are public disturbance, a crime committed by a gang member- in the presence of other gang members- is automatically tagged on each gang member present.

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by wisconsinite
    Personally...I think gangs are the first element in American society and culture that led ultimately to crime. Gangs date back to even the 19th Century. If Uncle Sam ever gets tough enough to abolish them, crime would plummet. Anyhoo...i'm babbling.
    Getting back the the U.K. "hoodie" innuendo. That's just another fine example of U.S. and U.K. english language differences. For example, if an Englishman asks an American if he can spare a fag, the American just might pop the Englishman in the mouth. LOL
    He might anyway. English cigarettes aren't the best smelling things in the world.

    Leave a comment:


  • wisconsinite
    replied
    Personally...I think gangs are the first element in American society and culture that led ultimately to crime. Gangs date back to even the 19th Century. If Uncle Sam ever gets tough enough to abolish them, crime would plummet. Anyhoo...i'm babbling.
    Getting back the the U.K. "hoodie" innuendo. That's just another fine example of U.S. and U.K. english language differences. For example, if an Englishman asks an American if he can spare a fag, the American just might pop the Englishman in the mouth. LOL

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by soontobeLEO
    Yes, that is common among gangs all across the United States. They have their specific color, and wear clothing in a certain way on the side that denotes their nation.

    Folk Nation group members use right identifiers to distinguish themselves from the People Nation groups. Right identification is displayed by the following:

    Form their hand signs with the right hand.
    Wearing articles of clothing to the right, such as caps, bandannas, and belt buckles.
    Wearing jewelry to the right.
    Rolling up the right pant leg.

    People Nation groups use left identifiers. For example they:

    Form their hand signs with the left hand.
    Wear their hats cocked or tilted to the left.
    Roll up the left pant leg.
    May untie the left shoe.
    They rest their hand in the left pocket.
    Wear jewelry to the left.

    One of the best places to go if you are interested in learning more is http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/index.html
    Hey, I remember that site. Thanks. A Gang Specialist from Florida also gave me a few more links, like knowgangs.com, etc.

    Leave a comment:


  • soontobeLEO
    replied
    Originally posted by N. A. Corbier
    My local police department reports that Chicago gangs sometimes use symmetry to denote "folks" or "peoples" affilation, using one color. Laces tied to the right or left, bandanna to the right or left pocket, one pocket hanging out, cap aligned to one side, etc.
    Yes, that is common among gangs all across the United States. They have their specific color, and wear clothing in a certain way on the side that denotes their nation.

    Folk Nation group members use right identifiers to distinguish themselves from the People Nation groups. Right identification is displayed by the following:

    Form their hand signs with the right hand.
    Wearing articles of clothing to the right, such as caps, bandannas, and belt buckles.
    Wearing jewelry to the right.
    Rolling up the right pant leg.

    People Nation groups use left identifiers. For example they:

    Form their hand signs with the left hand.
    Wear their hats cocked or tilted to the left.
    Roll up the left pant leg.
    May untie the left shoe.
    They rest their hand in the left pocket.
    Wear jewelry to the left.

    One of the best places to go if you are interested in learning more is http://www.dc.state.fl.us/pub/gangs/index.html

    Leave a comment:


  • N. A. Corbier
    replied
    Originally posted by EMTFirefighter
    Symmetry isn't what defines gang affiliation.
    My local police department reports that Chicago gangs sometimes use symmetry to denote "folks" or "peoples" affilation, using one color. Laces tied to the right or left, bandanna to the right or left pocket, one pocket hanging out, cap aligned to one side, etc.

    Leave a comment:

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