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  • #16
    To us, "hoodies" are worn by gang bangers, and those who emulate the "thug" lifestyle. Logical progression.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #17
      Originally posted by wisconsinite
      What are the crime statistics in China, Sri Lanka, Cuba, Phillipines, Thailand? Lesser than America's statistics, that's for sure.
      Yes, the crime rate is lower in those countries you mentioned, and America can lower its crime rate significantly if we adopt the tactics of those governments you cite.

      Those tactics will include such things as no habeas corpus, secret trials and secret police, no probable cause, no proof beyond a reasonable doubt, no free speech, no freedom of religion, basically the entire Bill of Rights will be tossed out the window. Any and all opposition to the government will be ruthlessly and brutally crushed. Governmental power would be placed in the hands of a sole individual, who will probably proclaim himself "Dictator for Life" if not "Emperor". I could go on and on.

      Do you want to live in such a society? I sure don't. If the price for the freedoms we enjoy (and take for granted) is a comparatively high crime rate, I am willing to pay.

      Wisconsinite, you sound like one of those "Sovereign Citizen" believers. Any truth to it? For more information on the "Sovereign Citizen" and other extremist organizations, click here: http://www.adl.org/learn/ext_us/SCM....ked=4&item=sov

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      • #18
        I always thought it was amusing that few opposed the People's Chinese Police, even though they were unarmed and rarely used force.

        Why? Because if you resist them, the People's Army will back them up, and most likely with armor. They may also round up your family, since being an enemy of the people may be hereditary.
        Some Kind of Commando Leader

        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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        • #19
          histfan, I browsed that website you linked, and, albeit interesting...I just don't fall into that category. I am not anti-government, nor am I a racist.
          To the contrary, I am pro-government. All I am saying, is the government is not effectively enough enforcing their laws to ensure compliance. For example, in Arab nations, if you so much as shoplifted, your hand would be chopped off. it's a damn effective deterrant. Americans can have their free speech, freedom of religion, the right to assemble, so on and so on.
          But if you want probable cause and proof beyond a reasonable doubt...drive through your nearest ghetto, turn on any news channel, read a newspaper. It is littered with teenagers and adults alike, that are gangbanging, robbing, murdering, drug running, driveby-shooting...I can go on and on...it's the decay of society.
          histfan, if YOU are willing to swap your freedoms for high crime...how will YOU feel when your parents, siblings, children, friends, fall victim TO those very same crime rates. ME, i'm willing to swap some of my freedoms in exchange for some safetys. It's what the Patriot Act is doing right now. I'm gonna be really pissed off if my family gets murdered at the hands of a strungout thug with an AK-47. As I commented before, the Constitution and the Bill Of Rights...is outdated, for the times we live in.
          "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

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          • #20
            Glad to hear that you are not one of those "Sovereign Citizen" folks.

            I have lived in poor and high-crime areas most of my entire life. I came from a working class family, and right now I may just barely be lower-middle-class, to put a label on it. My family and myself have been victims of crimes, including violent ones. As I said in another forum, the people get the level of policing they deserve.

            It is the citizens of this country who have put such stringent restrictions on the police. If the consequences of those stringent restrictions are weak enforcement of the laws, overcrowded prisons, and crooks who are out of jail and back on the street before the cops even finish writing the arrest report, then so be it. We have gotten what we deserve.

            As I said in my previous post, I do not think the solution to our crime problem is more aggressive law enforcement and giving up some freedoms in exchange for security. I think that will result in tyranny and the loss of the freedoms I hold dear.

            Do I have the solution? No, but I have ideas I think will help. First, decriminalize drug use and possession. Note I said decriminalize and NOT legalize . There is a big difference between the two. Decriminalize prostitution also. Move policing away from being a "para-military" type organization. Major reforms to our justice and corrections systems. Just to name a few. I don't want to go into details on this thread, but maybe I will start a new thread on this topic to hear everyone else's ideas

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            • #21
              Originally posted by wisconsinite
              For example, in Arab nations, if you so much as shoplifted, your hand would be chopped off.
              I once worked with a guard who was born in Jordan, but who grew up in Saudi Arabia, before immigrating to America. We once had a lengthily conversation on this exact subject.

              According to my friend, in Saudi Arabia anyway, a convicted thief will not get his/her hand chopped off until they have been convicted of theft at least three separate times. Even then, the punishment was rarely carried out.

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              • #22
                LOL...OK histfan...the Arabs get the three-strike rule...THEN get their hand lobbed off...if at all...hehehe.
                Also, I believe, the only way "the citizens of this country have put such stringent restrictions on the police"....is by electing panzy weak politicians
                that write panzy weak laws, that the police, and the judicial system have to endure. So, yes, we've gotten what we deserve, so-to-speak. But The Patriot Act is a step in the right direction, for terrorism anyway. There should be a Patriot Act-like document to address the thugs and "hoodlums" too.
                I also agree with you, we should make a thread seperate from this. Entitle it, "Crime & Punishment", or something. Decriminalize drugs and prostitution?
                Like Amsterdam? What's THEIR crime stats?
                "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

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                • #23
                  Decriminalize drugs and prostitiution? That would definatley NOT work. If you decriminalize the use of meth, crack, coke, even mj what about the crimes that were committed selling, procurring, shipping or stealing those drugs? Would the severity of punishment go down also? Wisconsinite is right, this isn't amsterdam (which has one of the highest personal crime rates in the world), decriminalize status offenses for jv's don't decriminilize drugs.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by ff000525
                    Decriminalize drugs and prostitiution? That would definatley NOT work. If you decriminalize the use of meth, crack, coke, even mj what about the crimes that were committed selling, procurring, shipping or stealing those drugs? Would the severity of punishment go down also? Wisconsinite is right, this isn't amsterdam (which has one of the highest personal crime rates in the world), decriminalize status offenses for jv's don't decriminilize drugs.
                    Sure it will. Since I don't want to have to write a book here, this is my idea in brief:

                    The government will have to regulate drugs and prostitution the same way it currently regulates tobacco and alcohol, with many of the same restrictions. No sales to minors, no sales outside of licensed establishments, etc.

                    As far as drugs go, I would decriminalize all but hallucinogens. I think that hallucinogens, especially LSD and PCP are too dangerous to allow. All other drugs should be allowed. Being under the influence of drugs in a public place should remain illegal.

                    Crimes related to the selling, distribution, transportation, etc. I think will pretty much disappear since the government will regulate this. However, I am not too naive to realize that illicit sales, thefts, etc. will still occur. I do think that it will be greatly reduced, however.

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                    • #25
                      hist...in a perfect world, your theories may hold true. But you're forgetting the fundamental principle. Criminals wil be criminals. They're not gonna obey the regulations and rules set forth. They're gonna continue to manufacture, traffic, distribute, sell, kill to get it, steal it, etc., etc. They won't care about selling to minors, and sell outside of licensed establishments. And they'll still be high in public. Not even the ATF will have an effect. The only thing that will happen by legalizing illicit drugs is, there will be a whole lotta vacancies in prisons around the country. OK, I'll bend a little bit...legalize marijuana.
                      "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by histfan71
                        ...
                        The government will have to regulate drugs... the same way it currently regulates tobacco and alcohol, with many of the same restrictions. No sales to minors, no sales outside of licensed establishments, etc....
                        That hasn't worked too well. Look at how many thousands are enslaved to these substances to the point where their craving is more important than good health, happy families, and productive lives. Who do you expect to pay for all the long-term staggering health care costs brought on by legalizing drugs? Let me guess. The government, right. In other words, don't tell me how to live my life, but I'm not responsible for the consequences.
                        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                        • #27
                          HIGH FIVE, Mr. Security!
                          "If you run, you'll only go to jail tired."

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                          • #28
                            I agree that drug abusers are addicted, and that addiction is bad for their health. It comes down to personal accountablility. The dummy made the decision to take drugs, and now the dummy has to pay the consequences.

                            No, I do not think the government should bear the burden of their health care costs. They should be paid for by the dummy. If the dummy cannot afford health care or insurance? Too bad, so sad for the dummy. I do not believe the government should protect individuals from themselves. Individuals should be responsible for their own health and safety. That means that individuals should not do drugs in the first place, but I believe that is an individual decision.

                            Also, once plenty of room has been made in the prisons we can fill them back up with violent offenders. I would feel much safer with violent crooks locked up and drug abusers out on the streets than vice versa.

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                            • #29
                              Legalizing drugs and prostitution would not diminish crime at all.

                              If you were to remove an illegal market then the criminals would just move on to another market. Remember about prohibition, the illegal booze market went thru the roof then after repeal the mobs just changed products.

                              Even now with tobacco there is a market in un-taxed cigerettes and there will be the same for narcotics if legalized.

                              Again even if these things are made legal along with age requirements etc there are those that would still sell the product to the underage.

                              In referance to US and UK language differances Gen. Patton summed it up as
                              "Two peoles seperated by a comon language."

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                              • #30
                                Our prisions are filled with violent criminals...and most of them have priors for drug convictions. In response to your other post, about only making possesion of hallucinegens illegal. Herion is considered an opiate, yet you can still die from the WITHDRAWL side effects when you're trying to beat it, yet you don't think it is dangerous? Do you really want people driving on the roads with a prescription for crack, coke or meth? From what I hear, those drugs have no medical purpose anyway, so how will the goverment regulate them? Flood the market with pharmuecutical grade crack? Ok, I'm spent on this thread...... how 'bout that biatholon?

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