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  • I got my first real action this past weekend.

    Before I get criticized, I'm not someone who is looking for trouble or who gets excited at the thought of getting physical while on the job. I'm just posting this to share my experience and to reflect on, contrary to many peoples' perceptions, just how dangerous my job can be at times.

    This past Saturday, 1 March 2008 at approximately 20:45, a young woman in a van pulled into the parking lot of the check cashing store where I work and was being closely followed by another car. At first, it appeared as if the van was broken down and was being pushed by the car, but when the occupant of the car exited his vehicle and began arguing with the woman in the van, I saw that that clearly was not the case and I went outside in hopes that I could peacefully resolve the situation.

    The woman in the van explained to me that the man in the second vehicle had been following her since she left the hospital located in the neighboring city. The man with whom she was arguing told me that this was a personal matter between himself and the young woman and that I should just stay out of it. I explained that if it is going on on this company's property, it does concern me and it is my job to make sure that it does not escalate.

    I continued trying to talk to this man for the next five minutes, during which he returned to his vehicle at least two more times and struck the woman's van both times. I finally told him that if he did not leave immediately, I would call the police and he would go to jail. As he returned to his vehicle for a final time, the young woman called the police on her cell phone and when he heard that, he exited his vehicle again, went up to her van, and began physically assaulting her.

    I hit the man once in the small of his back with my expandable baton, breaking it. At the same time, another male, who was a passenger in the vehicle in which the woman was driving, exited her vehicle and began fighting with the first man. While they were struggling, I sprayed the first man with pepper spray. Because that only seemed to agitate him more, I took out my 600,000 volt stun gun and was able to stun him in his lower torso area, which had become exposed during the struggle. This worked in subduing him, and I was easily able to get him to the ground to handcuff him and I held him there until the police arrived a minute later.

    Remember, this is in house security, and I'm the only guard working there, meaning I don't have backup to call whenever something happens. I guess it was just a stroke of luck that the guy with whom he was struggling held him in a headlock so that I could subdue him. Otherwise, the situation could have escalated further, possibly involving me using my firearm. Fortunately, it didn't and the guy was taken to jail and his car was towed.

    Do you guys think I handled this properly? The officer I spoke to thought so, and even told me to get better pepper spray, because the guy was able to see again after 15 minutes.

  • #2
    I continued trying to talk to this man for the next five minutes, during which he returned to his vehicle at least two more times and struck the woman's van both times

    The 1st time he struck the woman's vehicle, I would have called the police.
    I would have not waited for a second time.
    http://www.laurel-and-hardy.com/ Greatest Comedy team ever!

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    • #3
      Defiantly get the police rolling your way next time, you can always cancel them if the parties leave.
      ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

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      • #4
        Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
        Before I get criticized, I'm not someone who is looking for trouble or who gets excited at the thought of getting physical while on the job. I'm just posting this to share my experience and to reflect on, contrary to many peoples' perceptions, just how dangerous my job can be at times.

        This past Saturday, 1 March 2008 at approximately 20:45, a young woman in a van pulled into the parking lot of the check cashing store where I work and was being closely followed by another car. At first, it appeared as if the van was broken down and was being pushed by the car, but when the occupant of the car exited his vehicle and began arguing with the woman in the van, I saw that that clearly was not the case and I went outside in hopes that I could peacefully resolve the situation.

        The woman in the van explained to me that the man in the second vehicle had been following her since she left the hospital located in the neighboring city. The man with whom she was arguing told me that this was a personal matter between himself and the young woman and that I should just stay out of it. I explained that if it is going on on this company's property, it does concern me and it is my job to make sure that it does not escalate.

        I continued trying to talk to this man for the next five minutes, during which he returned to his vehicle at least two more times and struck the woman's van both times. I finally told him that if he did not leave immediately, I would call the police and he would go to jail. As he returned to his vehicle for a final time, the young woman called the police on her cell phone and when he heard that, he exited his vehicle again, went up to her van, and began physically assaulting her.

        I hit the man once in the small of his back with my expandable baton, breaking it. At the same time, another male, who was a passenger in the vehicle in which the woman was driving, exited her vehicle and began fighting with the first man. While they were struggling, I sprayed the first man with pepper spray. Because that only seemed to agitate him more, I took out my 600,000 volt stun gun and was able to stun him in his lower torso area, which had become exposed during the struggle. This worked in subduing him, and I was easily able to get him to the ground to handcuff him and I held him there until the police arrived a minute later.

        Remember, this is in house security, and I'm the only guard working there, meaning I don't have backup to call whenever something happens. I guess it was just a stroke of luck that the guy with whom he was struggling held him in a headlock so that I could subdue him. Otherwise, the situation could have escalated further, possibly involving me using my firearm. Fortunately, it didn't and the guy was taken to jail and his car was towed.

        Do you guys think I handled this properly? The officer I spoke to thought so, and even told me to get better pepper spray, because the guy was able to see again after 15 minutes.
        Some officers once the subject struck the van would've pulled their firearm, as the vehicle became a 3,000 pound deadly weapon at that time.After he struck the woman vehicle I would've ordered him out of the car at gun point. If he didnt comply I would've oc sprayed him. But You got the situation under control and the bad guy went to jail with no one physically injured so id say you did a good job. A few questions though

        1. how hard did you hit him to break your baton. if you hit the guy hard enough to bend you baton the guy you hit should've had some serious back injuries because Asps are made of 4140 aerospace alloy. Thats heavier steal than they use on aircraft.
        2. what Oc brand do you carry ? The sabre red i carry takes about an hour to an hour and 45 mins before the oc wears off.
        Last edited by bigdog; 03-05-2008, 05:09 PM.
        "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by bigdog View Post
          Some officers once the subject struck the van would've pulled their firearm, as the vehicle became a 3,000 pound deadly weapon at that time.After he struck the woman vehicle I would've ordered him out of the car at gun point. If he didnt comply I would've oc sprayed him. But You got the situation under control and the bad guy went to jail with no one physically injured so id say you did a good job. A few questions though

          1. how hard did you hit him to break your baton. if you hit the guy hard enough to bend you baton the guy you hit should've had some serious back injuries because Asps are made of 4140 aerospace alloy. Thats heavier steal than they use on aircraft.
          2. what Oc brand do you carry ? The sabre red i carry takes about an hour to an hour and 45 mins before the oc wears off.
          As for the material the baton is made out of, I can guarantee that if an airplane is made of steel, it is not going to get off the ground because it would be too heavy.

          I can't explain why my baton broke. Maybe because both of us were so riled up, I didn't realize my own strength and because he was in the midst of assaulting the young lady, he did not feel it right away. I can think of plenty of times when I received a cut or bruise in the midst of doing something but did not feel it until later. It is quite possible that he may have felt the effects of the baton shot later on.

          As for the pepper spray, I purchased it from Gall's. Here it is:

          http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=SD025

          Where can I get some better?

          I would have assumed that because it came from Gall's, it would be the best, but I guess I was wrong.
          Last edited by tattedupboy; 03-05-2008, 05:44 PM.

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          • #6
            Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
            As for the material the baton is made out of, I can guarantee that if an airplane is made of steel, it is not going to get off the ground because it would be too heavy.

            I can't explain why my baton broke. Maybe because both of us were so riled up, I didn't realize my own strength and because he was in the midst of assaulting the young lady, he did not feel it right away. I can think of plenty of times when I received a cut or bruise in the midst of doing something but did not feel it until later. It is quite possible that he may have felt the effects of the baton shot later on.

            As for the pepper spray, I purchased it from Gall's. Here it is:

            http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=SD025

            I would have assumed that because it came from Gall's, it would be the best, but I guess I was wrong.
            I meant to say stronger metal not steel. Also Mace brand sprays are low heat sprays only 500,000 heat units. Galls sells whatever sprays are popular usually.Mace brand has a .18% capsaician level ( the chemical that makes Oc hot). Sabre red on the other had has 1.33% . Sabre hits harder and lasts longer than mace brand. Galls sells sabre red. I forgot to add since you carry the stun gun, if you decide to go with Sabre red go with the water based so you wont light a suspect on fire if you spray then use the stun gun on them.
            OIL BASED http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=SD121
            Water based http://galls.com/style.html?assort=g...og&style=SD226
            Last edited by bigdog; 03-05-2008, 06:40 PM.
            "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by tattedupboy View Post
              Before I get criticized, I'm not someone who is looking for trouble or who gets excited at the thought of getting physical while on the job. I'm just posting this to share my experience and to reflect on, contrary to many peoples' perceptions, just how dangerous my job can be at times.

              This past Saturday, 1 March 2008 at approximately 20:45, a young woman in a van pulled into the parking lot of the check cashing store where I work and was being closely followed by another car. At first, it appeared as if the van was broken down and was being pushed by the car, but when the occupant of the car exited his vehicle and began arguing with the woman in the van, I saw that that clearly was not the case and I went outside in hopes that I could peacefully resolve the situation.

              The woman in the van explained to me that the man in the second vehicle had been following her since she left the hospital located in the neighboring city. The man with whom she was arguing told me that this was a personal matter between himself and the young woman and that I should just stay out of it. I explained that if it is going on on this company's property, it does concern me and it is my job to make sure that it does not escalate.

              I continued trying to talk to this man for the next five minutes, during which he returned to his vehicle at least two more times and struck the woman's van both times. I finally told him that if he did not leave immediately, I would call the police and he would go to jail. As he returned to his vehicle for a final time, the young woman called the police on her cell phone and when he heard that, he exited his vehicle again, went up to her van, and began physically assaulting her.

              I hit the man once in the small of his back with my expandable baton, breaking it. At the same time, another male, who was a passenger in the vehicle in which the woman was driving, exited her vehicle and began fighting with the first man. While they were struggling, I sprayed the first man with pepper spray. Because that only seemed to agitate him more, I took out my 600,000 volt stun gun and was able to stun him in his lower torso area, which had become exposed during the struggle. This worked in subduing him, and I was easily able to get him to the ground to handcuff him and I held him there until the police arrived a minute later.

              Remember, this is in house security, and I'm the only guard working there, meaning I don't have backup to call whenever something happens. I guess it was just a stroke of luck that the guy with whom he was struggling held him in a headlock so that I could subdue him. Otherwise, the situation could have escalated further, possibly involving me using my firearm. Fortunately, it didn't and the guy was taken to jail and his car was towed.

              Do you guys think I handled this properly? The officer I spoke to thought so, and even told me to get better pepper spray, because the guy was able to see again after 15 minutes.
              I would say you handled the situation very well. You didn't just jump to guns right away, you attempted to talk to the man and get him to see things in a calmer perspective.

              The second he got back in his car and began ramming her vehicle again, I would have called the police. As stated before, you can always cancel them if the parties leave the property. Better safe than sorry as i always say, espeially if you are the only officer.

              I would definately look into getting better mace if he could see in 15 minutes, that or his eyes generated some serious tears haha.

              I'm really surprised your baton broke that easily though. Heck of a hit!

              Overall, well done!
              Last edited by Deputy Dawg; 03-05-2008, 05:56 PM.
              "The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing." - Edmund Burke

              Comment


              • #8
                Wow, I'm very interested in what brand and size your baton was?? And in what way did it break?

                I'm a big fan of the baton and I use a 26" ASP. I thought they were unbreakable.
                Police Officer

                Experience: Bouncer, EMT, Theme Park Security, Money Transport, Armed Guard

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by dannyr619 View Post
                  Wow, I'm very interested in what brand and size your baton was?? And in what way did it break?

                  I'm a big fan of the baton and I use a 26" ASP. I thought they were unbreakable.
                  He carries a 21" ASP. I just checked his post in the duty belt thread.
                  "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You lived to tell us about the incident, so well done. That being said, I would like to offer a few different things to think about.

                    First, as soon as you found that things were getting heated, you should have called PD. I am sure that they would rather be on their way to a call for a little fight then on their way to tape off your homicide scene. When you are in the heat of battle, it is already too late.

                    Second, I tend to be a great deal more cautious than many and would have pulled out my firearm as soon as he rammed the other vehicle the first time. There are two reasons for this. The first is that his actions show that he intends to use his vehicle as a weapon and it is most certainly lethal. The second is that for all you knew, he could have been going to his vehicle to retrieve a gun. If that was the case, you would already be him in the OODA loop and may very well have, most unfortunately, been shot.

                    Third, I find it somewhat interesting that you decided to use a less lethal tool (baton) before using OC or stun gun. I am not one for having set escalation patterns, but escalating immediately to a less-lethal tool then down grading it to a less-than-lethal tool may end up hurting in a court case. This all depends on that the companies Use of Force policy is. (Please tell me they HAVE a use of force policy!)

                    All in all, you did what you did and lived to see another day. In the end, that is the most critical thing here.
                    -Jedi-
                    Semper Paratus

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      1. You were uninjured.
                      2. You did not let the episode get to your head.
                      3. You had the brains to discuss it with others to learn for next time.
                      4. You did not cause excessive injuries to the offender
                      5. You made REASONABLE steps to subdue the offender.
                      6. You came home safe and you got to see family and friends who care about your welfare again !!

                      Congrats on coming home safe !!!

                      As others have said, I would have called the police sooner as you don't know what the intentions of the offender were to be as he could have pulled a weapon from his vehicle or his passenger could have targetted you.

                      Our police are S-L-O-W-L-Y being issued Tasers now which is long overdue and should be a front line weapon as someone off their face will not be affected by OC too well. The reliance on OC is not a good thing but is an upfront personal protection tool against aggressors. There was a brand in the 1990's we could get in Australia legally called RED HEAT - it bloody worked well !!
                      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bigdog View Post
                        He carries a 21" ASP. I just checked his post in the duty belt thread.
                        Is it really an ASP-brand, or a knockoff? That's what I want to know.
                        "To win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the highest skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the highest skill." Sun-Tzu

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                        • #13
                          I am 6'1" and of solid build and my ASPs are both 21" as I found the 26" to be a bit clumsy to swing. My ASP has bent a bit when smashing in a car window for a child left in a car on a 110f day but not been used on a person and was able to be straighten to a certain degree (not a banana baton now).
                          "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                          • #14
                            Good job! I know what it is like to work alone, have doen so for most of my career. (And we are not allowed sprays or firearms )
                            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

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                            • #15
                              I'd say it was a job well done.

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