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  • Mall Security

    The police demand tougher security. Thoughts?

    http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...tory?track=rss

    Since someone murdered a mother and daughter and left their bodies outside a Boca Raton mall, Coral Springs Police Chief Duncan Foster repeatedly tried to talk to the owners of Coral Square Mall about hiring off-duty officers to increase security.

    But Foster said his requests went unanswered by mall managers for Simon Property Group, owner also of the Town Center at Boca Raton, where the bodies were found. Now Foster has written the owner of the malls, asking for a sit-down meeting.

    "No one has contacted our department to discuss any security arrangements at the Coral Square Mall with regards to the recent tragedy at the Town Center or to discuss any potential partnership to alleviate future security concerns," Foster wrote in the letter mailed Thursday to John Petruzzi, vice president of corporate security for Indianapolis-based Simon.

  • #2
    No. Police demand that they be given short call assignment work. Notice the "partnership" (You pay us, we provide off-duty police officers acting as security guards), and "about hiring off-duty officers."

    They're not demanding higher security, they're demanding that the property group hire their off-duty cops.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      How about beefing up and properly equipping the Security they already have?

      Some malls do not want to hire special duty officers as it costs alot of money. Here is how I think it breaks down

      Special Duty officer - $37.50/Hr (I believe)
      Security Officer - $9.50/Hr (approx)
      Security Shift Supervisor - $11.00/Hr (approx)

      Ours used to have special duty officers long ago. They even bought them a police cruiser brand new for use on the property. All that has since disappeared. Today, they are "kicking the tires" about it again. Funny, they are taking alot from us and want to hire LEO's. Pisses me off.
      "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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      • #4
        Originally posted by FireEMSPolice View Post
        How about beefing up and properly equipping the Security they already have?
        Couldn't have said it better myself...
        Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
          No. Police demand that they be given short call assignment work. Notice the "partnership" (You pay us, we provide off-duty police officers acting as security guards), and "about hiring off-duty officers."

          They're not demanding higher security, they're demanding that the property group hire their off-duty cops.

          EXACTLY my thoughts when I listened to the news story.

          Comment


          • #6
            Nathan, their's is a one-sided approach. Instead of asking the county or city for pay raises, they latch upon their brand of security and plan to spread the wealth around. From the tenor of the article, had the deaths been of homeless people, life's water would have remained ripple-less.
            Then there are the liability issues. Sue the mall, good possibility. Sue the guard company, excellent possibility. Sue the city or the county, "dream along with me!"
            Enjoy the day,
            Bill

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            • #7
              This happens globally as IF and WHEN a risk assessment has been conducted by an independat RM, or may have been updated seasonally (ie. summer vs winter), the might dollar is going to play a major component. Yes in the perfect world, paid police officers would be present acting as visual deterents, however, at special events we have a user pays system for the police which is about $75 US an hour (I believe a member from Canada concurred the same arrangement).

              Based on minimal rates, we are looking at a 3:1 ratio of S/O's to police officers so this means that working in pairs you triple your security force - hence why security forces have a higher presence. Whilst a police presence in a mall will make a visual dent (I never said STOP) in mall crimes, offenders will just go elsewhere or wait for the risk of being caught to subside on quiet days.

              Those of you who have consulted know how frustrating it is to lead your client to the water trough but they have then refused to drink from it. Working for an employer you have more influence, but as a consultant you are just like an architect - "here are your plans and here is your bill as it is now up to you to go with my design or not".
              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by NRM_Oz View Post
                This happens globally as IF and WHEN a risk assessment has been conducted by an independat RM, or may have been updated seasonally (ie. summer vs winter), the might dollar is going to play a major component. Yes in the perfect world, paid police officers would be present acting as visual deterents, however, at special events we have a user pays system for the police which is about $75 US an hour (I believe a member from Canada concurred the same arrangement).

                Based on minimal rates, we are looking at a 3:1 ratio of S/O's to police officers so this means that working in pairs you triple your security force - hence why security forces have a higher presence. Whilst a police presence in a mall will make a visual dent (I never said STOP) in mall crimes, offenders will just go elsewhere or wait for the risk of being caught to subside on quiet days.

                Those of you who have consulted know how frustrating it is to lead your client to the water trough but they have then refused to drink from it. Working for an employer you have more influence, but as a consultant you are just like an architect - "here are your plans and here is your bill as it is now up to you to go with my design or not".
                http://www.spvm.qc.ca/en/service/1_7...ialisation.asp
                It's $66.00/hour Canadian (or American, they are at par these days ).
                I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                Comment


                • #9
                  I hope I don't ruffle to many security feathers here, but there is a strong reason for hiring extra duty police officers to "enhance" current security staff. The most obvious is the liability issue that has been mentioned. With the limitations placed on security officers, many malls appreciate the fact that a police officer can instantly respond and deal with the situation. Be it shoplifting or trespassing, there is no need to try to detain someone, 90% of most private security complaints, while waiting for an available officer to respond. Also, whatever limitations that the security contract may place on the officer can be overidden by a police officer.

                  Also, and no disrespect is intended here, the perception that a police officer has much more authority than private security, is a strong deterrant to criminal activity.

                  The rare and tragic events that occur in malls may not be prevented by the police, but the PR value is worth the extra money.
                  Jerry
                  http://personalprotectionconcepts.info

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jmaccauley View Post
                    I hope I don't ruffle to many security feathers here, but there is a strong reason for hiring extra duty police officers to "enhance" current security staff. The most obvious is the liability issue that has been mentioned. With the limitations placed on security officers, many malls appreciate the fact that a police officer can instantly respond and deal with the situation. Be it shoplifting or trespassing, there is no need to try to detain someone, 90% of most private security complaints, while waiting for an available officer to respond. Also, whatever limitations that the security contract may place on the officer can be overidden by a police officer.

                    Also, and no disrespect is intended here, the perception that a police officer has much more authority than private security, is a strong deterrant to criminal activity.

                    The rare and tragic events that occur in malls may not be prevented by the police, but the PR value is worth the extra money.
                    Ok, following your reasoning, You have a LEO on site, who can right away take a person into custody for shoplifting, etc. Now that officer takes him to lock up and you've lost your LEO on site, now what?
                    SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jmaccauley View Post
                      I hope I don't ruffle to many security feathers here, but there is a strong reason for hiring extra duty police officers to "enhance" current security staff. The most obvious is the liability issue that has been mentioned. With the limitations placed on security officers, many malls appreciate the fact that a police officer can instantly respond and deal with the situation. Be it shoplifting or trespassing, there is no need to try to detain someone, 90% of most private security complaints, while waiting for an available officer to respond. Also, whatever limitations that the security contract may place on the officer can be overidden by a police officer.

                      Also, and no disrespect is intended here, the perception that a police officer has much more authority than private security, is a strong deterrant to criminal activity.

                      The rare and tragic events that occur in malls may not be prevented by the police, but the PR value is worth the extra money.
                      The problem becomes when the police start to use it to make money. I've mentioned this before. My hotel attracts young people that are too young to legally drink in their own state/province but come here because our drinking age is 18. This makes the downtown low to mid priced hotels very busy on the weekends during the school year. We used to have a 3 strikes & you are out rule. You'd be warned twice about causing a disturbance & would be thrown out on the 3rd one. Smaller hotels did not have security & relied on the police to do the eviction. We would call for police assitance if we were getting resistance. The lawyers working for the police decided that Canada's charter of rights spacifically the section the basically says "a home is a man's castle". A person can not be thrown out of his home without a trial. The Montreal Police Department lawyers decided that an hotel room was a temporary home & therefore no matter what they did (as long as it did not become criminal) they could not be thrown out in the middle of the night.

                      There solution is to call them & they will come & issue a ticket for a noise by-law infraction. The problem with this is that our police resources are spread thin already. I have had to wait 45 minutes while dealing alone with a violent suspect. I can imagine the wait time for a noise complaint! The answer from the police - hire an Off
                      Duty Officer to work at the hotel. How much can 1 Cop prevent in a 25 story hotel? For $66/hour I can hire 3 or 4 Security Officers.
                      Last edited by HotelSecurity; 02-25-2008, 04:59 PM.
                      I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                      Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
                        Ok, following your reasoning, You have a LEO on site, who can right away take a person into custody for shoplifting, etc. Now that officer takes him to lock up and you've lost your LEO on site, now what?
                        No, the LEO on site would call for another unit to transport so the LEO never leaves.

                        Alot of the paperwork can be done via a secure site on the internet.
                        "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Unless there is a substation in the mall, most PD you see walking around are off duty and call the on duty PD to do the paperwork and make the official arrest.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            So, in the same sense your still waiting on PD to come huh? Show me again the difference in making you Security Officers better at their jobs and hiring an off duty cop that can do pretty much the same thing your security officer can do?

                            We'll use the one retail account that we have for example.

                            Person shoplifts, I catch them, I arrest them, we decide to prosecute, I call the Sheriff's Office, they come to pick him up.

                            Your line of reasoning:

                            Person shoplifts, Off-duty LEO catches them, arrests them, store prosecutes, he calls the Sheriff's Office, they come pick him up.

                            Where's the difference?
                            SecurityProfessional is Back up and running!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by gcmc security part 2 View Post
                              So, in the same sense your still waiting on PD to come huh? Show me again the difference in making you Security Officers better at their jobs and hiring an off duty cop that can do pretty much the same thing your security officer can do?
                              Years ago, one of my accounts was the Parkview Apartments in North Minneapolis. Not a nice place. There were two guards on duty, plus one off-duty, ready to retire Minneapolis copper, who sat behind the bulletproof glass in the security office. (Installed after someone tried to shoot a guard)
                              Do you think the cop made rounds with us? Nope.
                              Do you think the cop would back us up on calls? Nope.
                              What did he do? Read magazines, listened to the radio, talked on the phone, visited a gal named "Candy" in her apt for hours on end some nights.

                              Well, at least when we called him on our radio for help, he got on his city-provided police radio and called for on-duty squads. AFTER the squads got there, he would get up, brush the crumbs off his shirt, walk (slowly) to the scene and tell the responding officers what a sh*tty job we did.
                              Last edited by Badge714; 02-25-2008, 11:20 PM.
                              "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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