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  • Armed S/O shoots back at would be robbers.

    This is one of those stories that "kind of" ended in a way that could have been worse. I can not help to wonder if he was in-house or contract? Not to mention he is 80 years old and armed. But wait. The bad guys shot him. With a pellet gun first! Over use of force against a lesser threat? IMHO given a bad guy points any kind of projectile weapon at me your going to wish you had stayed home.

    http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_032073750.html
    My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

    -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

    -It's just a job kid deal with it

    -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

  • #2
    Originally posted by Echos13
    This is one of those stories that "kind of" ended in a way that could have been worse. I can not help to wonder if he was in-house or contract? Not to mention he is 80 years old and armed. But wait. The bad guys shot him. With a pellet gun first! Over use of force against a lesser threat? IMHO given a bad guy points any kind of projectile weapon at me your going to wish you had stayed home.

    http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_032073750.html
    Holy $h!t! I have to run out, I'll comment on this later.

    Remember, even in house MUST have a D & G card. And he's not the first 80 year old G I know of.
    Some Kind of Commando Leader

    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Echos13
      ... Over use of force against a lesser threat?...
      Unlikely. He may not have known what kind of a gun it was until after the incident. Even police have shot people who pointed a toy gun at them. He no doubt believed his life was endangered. Even if charges were filed against him, think about what would you do as a juror?
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Echos13
        This is one of those stories that "kind of" ended in a way that could have been worse. I can not help to wonder if he was in-house or contract? Not to mention he is 80 years old and armed. But wait. The bad guys shot him. With a pellet gun first! Over use of force against a lesser threat? IMHO given a bad guy points any kind of projectile weapon at me your going to wish you had stayed home.

        http://cbs4.com/local/local_story_032073750.html
        I well placed pellet will kill you as surely as a bullet. Most states define deadly force as an action that will likely result in serious injury and/or death. A pellet gun, most certainly fits that bill. I have drawn down on susepcts with a bb/pellet gun and I have every intention of defending myself. Another point the public and media often miss is that an officer may use deadly force in the face of ANY form of lethal force, not just gun vs gun.
        Last edited by Tennsix; 02-14-2006, 04:48 PM.
        I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
        -Lieutenant Commander Data
        sigpic

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        • #5
          Originally posted by Tennsix
          I well placed pellet will kill you as sure as a bullet. Most states define deadly force as an action that will likely result in serious injury and/or death. A pellet gun, most certainly fits that bill. I have drawn down on susepcts with a bb/pellet gun and I have every intention of defending myself. Another point the public and media often miss is that an officer may use deadly force in the face of ANY form of lethal force, not just gun vs gun.
          We recently had a shooting of a young man by police in a school. The orange marking on the weapon was repainted black.
          It looked like a .380. The police placed an actual .380 next to the pellet pistol version of the .380 and Tennsix, you couldn't tell the difference. The young man suffered severe depression and it was concluded as suicide by cop.
          Forty years ago my car captain and I had weapons drawn on a 14-year old who had a plastic look-alike Colt 1911. After repeated orders to drop the the "gun" he finally complied.
          I had a heavy frame "J" model Colt and the car captain had a S&W Combat Masterpiece. I know in my heart of hearts had he aimed that thing we would have both fired.
          We had an incident while assigned to Dobbins AFB, GA a man was killed by a pellet that entered the corner of his eye and into the brain.
          Enjoy the day,
          Bill

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          • #6
            The weapon in the school shooting was a UHC M9 9mm Airsoft pistol. I have one, sitting next to me - which can never leave my home because the orange plastic barrel tip FELL OFF, and will not go back on.

            It is, except for the Beretta Markings being replaced with UHC, identical in function to the 92FS Beretta, except for the safety (Safety is the slide release, not the side safety), and the fact that it is not blow-back operation.

            The media likes to call these things "bb guns" or "pellet guns," because it sounds more sensational - and they don't think people know what "airsoft" is.

            Airsoft was originally designed as a training method. I have several airsoft weapons for marksmanship, handling, speed shooting, and house clearing drills, from my M9 to a Crossman M4A1 with RIS system. The Crossman is one of the cheaper varieties of the M4 airsoft rifle, and still looks like an M4. Thankfully, the orange cap is the flash hider, not just a "cap."
            Some Kind of Commando Leader

            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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            • #7
              The colored tip is a get around for the makers of these guns. I must admit it's not much fun shooting something thats all orange or something. That one that looks like a S&W model 986 is pretty realistic looking.

              I have hand many BB and pellet guns. My favorite for long range power practice was the Bengemin pump. Also an old Crossman .45 that was more a boat achor than a gun. Had that large pull cocking bracket on the back. That thing was more a indoor plinker than anything else. My best was a 1st generation pellet series Olympic Arms PCR-1 but it broke. It was more exspensive to fix than what I paid for it. I have a pigeon gun called a Crossman Automag III for those that liked to mark my truck.

              Yes, I think I would shoot a bad guy no matter what it looked like. Having shot some of these myself I know what they can do.

              Airsoft. The term is passive but the means are not.
              My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

              -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

              -It's just a job kid deal with it

              -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

              Comment


              • #8
                To me, a nightmare situation for a LEO is to encounter someone who modified a real gun to look like a toy. The officer hesitates and......you get the picture.
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by Mr. Security
                  To me, a nightmare situation for a LEO is to encounter someone who modified a real gun to look like a toy. The officer hesitates and......you get the picture.
                  It has happened
                  I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                  -Lieutenant Commander Data
                  sigpic

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Tennsix
                    It has happened
                    What of the suspect who stated he had a wallet and didn't want to drop on the ground. Two officers kept the suspect entertained while a third officer came up from behind and, with his baton, knocked the wallet out of the suspect's hand.
                    Would anyone like to guess what the "wallet" contained? No descant here!
                    The object was a hollowed out leather holster containing a .38 caliber derringer.
                    Years ago in Cincinnati a veteran officer was murdered by a revolver disguised as a toy "six-shooter."
                    The twice convicted felon was sent to the electric chair.
                    Tennsix, your post was on the mark.
                    Enjoy the day,
                    Bill

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                    • #11
                      If I was in this position, I wouldn't check to see what I had just been shot with. That effer's getting a FTS drill. Point blank.

                      Somewhat on the subject, I was out at the range a few weeks ago and saw a purple and white 1911 (don't know the manufacturer, but it was composite) for rent. It pissed me off that I not only have to watch for real guns, but now real guns that look like fakes.
                      Liability is never above officer safety. Do what you must to make sure you go home safe.

                      William-2, 10-6 for 105. Yep, I'm at Starbucks!

                      I may be gay, but I'll eff you up!

                      Personal Web Site

                      Cheap, Quality Web Design! Put a great cop on the beat by helping with my tuition! :-D

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by jakeslife
                        If I was in this position, I wouldn't check to see what I had just been shot with. That effer's getting a FTS drill. Point blank.

                        Somewhat on the subject, I was out at the range a few weeks ago and saw a purple and white 1911 (don't know the manufacturer, but it was composite) for rent. It pissed me off that I not only have to watch for real guns, but now real guns that look like fakes.
                        You haven't seen Bushmaster's PINK M-16s, have you? Its ceramic, directly into the metal, and they can do it with any weapon system. Any color.
                        Some Kind of Commando Leader

                        "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by jimmyhat
                          I saw that in some NRA magazine, recently. Nice lil' family portrait, Mommy/Daddy/Daughter. Lil' rug rat was armed with a pink Bushmaster. I'll premise this comment by stating that I am very pro-gun, but really! Customized assault rifles for children? Is that really necessary?
                          I saw it with a 18-20 something bunny running around with a pink Bushmaster. This is trickle down of what Bushmaster really does with the ceramic coating - multiple density camoflauge that is IR disruptive.

                          But, yeah. When I was a kid, my AR-15 was OD Green. It was not freaking PINK.
                          Some Kind of Commando Leader

                          "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                          • #14
                            These guns are popping up in some places here in Florida. I have seen pink Lady Smiths and Berretta Jetfires, but AR's and Bush's!? Ai, ya!

                            Now those titanium Smiths and Rugers with that electric blue like haze finish are cool looking!
                            My views, opinions and statements are my own. They are not of my company, affiliates or coworkers.

                            -Being bagger at Publix has more respect these days

                            -It's just a job kid deal with it

                            -The industry needs to do one of two things; stop fiddling with the thin line and go forward or go back to that way it was. A flashlight in one hand and your set of keys in the other

                            Comment

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