Are "video games" contributing factors to all these school shootings?

Bc...

You a fan of LTC Grossman, too? I borrowed his books from my brother when he got deployed to Iraq 1/12 Marines. He has a lot of great insight.

One thing to remember

Alot of us kids (I'm only 24) are lucky enough to have been raised with respect, etc. I have learned that the disrespectful punk kids are actually the exception to the rule.

Well....

Following the Columbine school shootings in April 1999, investigators had learned that the shooters were heavily into video games, and had played a lot of "Doom."

This is actually not true. Along with most of the rumors about school shooters being 'loners' etc.

Its my theory that from a psychological perspective, I believe that violent video games can influence people to act out, and make fantasy into reality.

What the games actually do is cause desensitization. The games with realistic bullet wounds, etc train the player from an early age to be able to kill to get a high score or what have you. Also, alot of first-person shooter-type games were initially developed by the military to aid in training. [paraphrase from LT. Col David Grossman "On Killing."

but I've heard that store managers will discretely sell a violent video game, so long as there are no witnesses to the transaction.

And I've heard of Bigfoot and Nessie, too.

Do you ever wonder how many of these young shooters were into playing violent video games?

My brother and I played for the mental challenge. We both were 2 and 3 sports letter earners in high school on the honor roll and in nat'l honor Society, etc. The video games gave us a chance to do something challenging that was different from our everyday. Many kids view them the same way. Unfortunately, there is a great number of people who allow tv's and such to babysit their children. It is these children, statistically, that are more likely to be killers if they play violent video games (if, of course, you agree with B.F. Skinner and the "tabula rasa.")

And that their video games had been contributing factors to their actions?

Unfortunately there will never be a definite answer to this. Outside of the fact that they do allow for desensitization which can possibly lead to violent behavior. IIRC, Dahmer had cats. His torture of these animals made his sick behavior easier for him to stomach.

I took intro-psychology a few years back, and the textbook had a section on the topic of "identity crisis," which is very common among teenagers and young adults. The author had suggested that the lack of guidance, brought by parents too busy working long hours, had produced a society where more kids are undergoing "identity crisis;" and are susceptible to outside influence of drugs, alcohol, gangs, and other negative influences.

See, I cannot really buy into this. My parents were gone alot and when the old man was around, he made life hell. My brother and I turned out fine. I don't believe the kids or anyone else should blame somebody other than themselves for their being a f*ck up. Yea, we can say that a bad childhood made them act out, but that's not true. At everyone's core, they understand the difference between right and wrong. Some call it conscience, others see it as something religious, but it is all the same. A little voice inside that you must purposely ignore before doing the unthinkable.

[darkenna]

There is just as much violence in schools today as there ever has been. The level of violence hasn't changed; only the level of damage. One reason for that is a change in what is taught to children as they are being raised.

(Keep in mind, these are generalizations & stereotypes, and not, I repeat, not, aimed at anyone in particular. If you were not one of these "later" kids, and your parents and teachers actually taught you these "earlier" things, good for you!)

Let us think back through the years. In the 50's (and going on back through time immemorial), fistfights amongst schoolchildren were normal. Occasionally, someone used a baseball bat or similar object. Rarely, someone would use a knife. Fights were very rarely lethal, usually ending with someone have a black eye or a broken bone. Kids were taught the meanings of respect and honor, on the importance of life, and the seriousness of taking life. Kids were also taught how to handle knives and guns, how to correctly use them for their proper purposes, and why to respect them.

Later, as time marched onwards, the fists got brass knuckles, the bats became chains and steel pipes, the knives became larger and more common. Occasionally, some kid would use a gun. Fights ended more frequently with serious injuries. Kids were taught what respect was, and that honor was a chivalrous thing but not necessarily modern, and that people died. Kids were taught that knives were for cooking or shanking, and that guns were for adults.

Time moved forward. The brass knuckles became chains and steel pipes, the knives became guns, and the guns became more common. Kids were taught that you should respect strength, that honor is for the Marines, and that life can hurt you so you should wear helmets & kneepads. They weren't allowed to play in the dirt or go hunting, they weren't allowed to catch & gut their own fish. They had to wear helmets when on their bikes and couldn't have pocketknives. The babysitter was replaced by the TV and the video game. Respect for each other was replaced by taunting. Kids became very verbally, and sometimes physically, vicious towards anyone different or physically inferior. Fights usually ended with serious injuries, deaths became more commonplace and a sensational news item.

Now this last group of kids are parents. The "debaucherous" generation of the 70's and 80's have teenagers. We need to ask ourselves, "What are they being taught? Are they being taught respect and honor, or that might makes right? Are they being taught the realities of knives and guns as tools, or that they are cool ways to hurt people? Are they being taught that great power brings great responsibility, or that strength should be used to tame and control those around you?



Besides, the downfall of modern society is clearly the fault of monks. All that chanting and shaving of the head. Living in peace and harmony, faugh!!! It's a front. Like Microsoft Windows, which was simply a giant globe-wide conspiracy to get everyone addicted to Spider-Solitaire and Freecell. (It worked, too.)

[Black Caesar]

I don't think video games are to "blame", but I also think people dismiss the potential effects of ANY forms of stimulus (such as video games) on people, especially (but not only) on weak minded people.

Video games make you think, they "train" you so well that the United States Army uses America's Army as a tool. It works so well that one player with no prior medical training took what he learned playing the game and Saved a real person's life.

I like what Lt Col Dave Grossman says about video games. From the Wikipedia article about him:

Controversially, Col. Grossman argues that that the techniques used by armies to train soldiers to kill are mirrored in certain types of video game. The conclusion he draws is that playing violent video games, particularly first-person shooters, train children in the use of weapons and, more importantly, harden them emotionally to the task of murder by simulating the killing of hundreds or thousands of opponents in a single typical video game.

Hell, I'm a big time MMO player (I play EvE and WoW now) and have played loads of online FPS games like Quake. IMO video games can be almost as good as training aides as playing real life paint ball.

[Aussie-SO]

Late 70's early 80's the do gooders of this world stated that we should all spare the rod and spoil the child.

We can now see where it was meant to read "Spared the rod and SPOILED the child" as in spoiled the meal.

Strangely enough about 3 years back these same "DO GOODERS" admitted they may have got it wrong!

Kids divorcing their parents, what tha????? Take the little brats, place them in their bedrooms give em a couple of lashes with the strap across the butt and tell them to pull their blardy heads in!!

Lower the freaking cost of living! Lower interest rates! rant n rave all ya like it ain't going to happen.

Instead, why not take responsibility for your actions, you want the nice house get an education and a decent job where you can afford it.

Stop buying up big cos the "Joneses" have it and live within your means and dag nab it, you might be able to raise kids with an actual parent at home instead of a baby sitting Nintendo.

And the best part, the kids might actually learn a word that is slowly edging toward extinction, RESPECT

[Rooney]

I think there are many factors that come into play with youth violence.

1. Technology. Kids today spend alot of time either watching tv, updating and chatting on myspace or facebook, playing video games, etc. They do not do social activities face to face as much as they used to.

2. Pressure from academia. Nowadays if you want to get into a university you must take advanced placement courses that used to be limited to only the extremely gifted students. They also must have an excellent record for social clubs or volunteering. This brings alot of pressure on someone that may not be developed enough to handle it.

3. Parenting. With the higher cost of living and the desire for more status symbols (cars, larger house, etc.) the work week has expanded significantly. Thus leaving less time for the family unit.

4. Peer pressure. We all had peer pressure when we were young but today it seems to get the best of many of the youth. Wanting to "fit in" is an essential part of growing up in society. When a person is ridiculed because of the way they look or thier religion, etc. it places a wall around them psychologically that tends to numb them from the natural feeling of reaching out to others. As a result, they tend to close in and lose all feeling of compassion.

When a person resorts to such violence as the school shootings and/or suicide I believe they think it is a way for them to correct a difficiency in thier life that they do not know how to correct any other way.

Or the little bastards are just nuts.

[N. A. Corbier]

Why is Jack Thompson on this forum?

[CameraMan]

Everyone knows the AIDS epidemic was caused by the US dollar going off the gold standard. Please. How naive do you think we are?

[OpsMan1922]

brought by parents too busy working long hours

If you want to blame something..check the quote above. TIME is needed to raise kids. With the continous competition in the market place, rising cost of living, etc..who has time to raise their kids? Who has dinner at the table with the family?

Think about it.

[Tennsix]

Fluoride in the water.

No, that caused the AIDS epidemic.

[CameraMan]

Fluoride in the water.

[Chucky]

Nope. As a kid it was Elvis shaking his pelvis that was turning kids bad. Then it was James Dean and the dam Motorcycles. Then it was the Beatles and their long hair that had our kids a little disturbed. Like Don of the Dead said it is the parents responsibility. Before I would blame Video games I would take a good look at the Square thing that lives at the bottom of the ocean named Bob. That whole concept has me weirded out.

No. Its the parents who don't teach their kids right from wrong, then let the TV and video games raise their kids for them.

We have a winner.

[Tennsix]

Just a thought. It is reasonable to compare high school campus shootings to those at colleges and universities?