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  • New Job, Have a few Questions

    First, I live in Los Angeles, California (and all that entails).

    I was recently offered a job doing armed Estate security for a very wealthy retired couple. I've worked as an armed officer (security), and have an exposed weapon permit. This job involves wearing a suit and tie and carrying concealed. I assume I can carry as long as I'm on private property, but the couple mentioned I may occasionally be picking up or dropping them off at the airport. I made it clear without a CCW I won't be able to carry concealed off property. The couple doesn't know much about the inns and outs of security and told me to just "take off my jacket so everyone can see the weapon!". I realise it isn't that simple and plan on leaving the weapon at their residence on the airport runs, whether they like it or not. But I did say I'd look into what I would need. This being Los Angeles unless they know someone I'd say I'm S.O.L. as far as the CCW is concerned.

    I mentioned this to another security officer friend of mine and he said I'd need to be working for a security company and wearing a uniform in order to drive with the exposed weapon.

    Any insight would be appreciated.

  • #2
    When I was "Proprietary Armed Security", I asked BSIS for legal requirement to be armed.

    as far as I remember is,
    You can be security if you work for security company or any lawful business exclusively (Proprietary security officer, read link below).

    http://www.dca.ca.gov/bsis/forms_pubs/dyk_ppso.shtml

    as you already have Guard Card (not PSO card) and firearm permit, you can be "armed" security officer for lawful business".
    You don't have to take PSO card.
    because if you will be armed, you won't be PSO, you will be "Armed Security officer for lawful business". (exclusively, single employer)

    But you have to be W-2 employee (NOT 1099-misc. independent contractor is NOT "Employee" By BSIS point of view).
    and work for single employer (BSIS regulation).
    (you can not have multi W-2 if one of employer is non-security company. you can work for multi companies if all of them are security companies)

    for weapon (Baton, Firearm)
    in private property, you have to have "Written permission" to carry loaded weapon from property owner (by penal code).
    You can carry exposed without written permission because you have exposed permit.
    But not concealed (without CCW or without written permission of owner because it's not "your" property).

    Outside of property, you have to wear "uniform" which defined as two conditions (by B&P code).
    1. patch on each shoulder clearly shows 2 words "Private Security" and "company name"
    2. badge (or cloth badge) on upper left chest.
    It can be suit and tie (or polo and jeans) but you have to clear those two requirement of "Uniform".

    * Your employer (old couple) will have to give you written permission to carry concealed firearm inside of his property.
    * They have to hire you as W-2 employee (not 1099-misc).
    * You can not work for anyone else but them (you have to work for "exclusive" to single employer, if employer is not security company)
    * You have to wear "Uniform" which will be patch on each shoulder and badge on chest when you are armed.
    as long as you wear "Uniform" and you work as W-2 employee for them, you can be armed on outside of his property on duty (protecting person) .

    I think other CA members may know more than I do.
    Last edited by Limo LA; 02-10-2008, 08:36 AM.
    Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

    Comment


    • #3
      You're an in-house security officer

      From your description, it sounds like you're an in-house security officer. If I were in your shoes, when you leave their private property, I'd dress up in a guard uniform with generic "Security Officer" patches. Here's a link to a uniform store in the LA area. They have a store in Los Angeles, Long Beach, and Santa Ana.

      http://www.qmuniforms.com/
      http://www.qmuniforms.com/search.asp...y+officer&Cat=

      This is where I go to buy my uniform shirts with "Security Officer" patches. A lot of guard companies get all their patches and uniforms from Quartermaster. If I were in your shoes, I'd also carry mace and either an expandable baton, or PR-24 baton, so you don't have to use lethal force when you encounter problems. If you don't have mace and baton, here's a public-funded school that only charges $5 to get mace and baton BSIS certification.

      http://www.lpvrop.org/Divisions___De..._Services.html

      Classes are all evenings, starting at 5 or 6 PM, at Bassett High School on the corner of Amar Rd. and N. Puente Ave in La Puente. They're held at room 700 or 710, next to the tennis courts. Instructors are all retired LEs.
      Last edited by OMG_Ihatethisjob; 02-10-2008, 10:14 AM. Reason: add link to S/O patches, and school training info

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks so much for the quick response guys, that was a BIG help. I can see I'll have some reading to do.

        They will be paying me as a Salaried W-2 employee. I'm also very familiar with Quartermaster as they have a store not far from my last employer (Toy store for LE and security) and have a Baton permit.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by CAR54 View Post
          Thanks so much for the quick response guys, that was a BIG help. I can see I'll have some reading to do.

          They will be paying me as a Salaried W-2 employee. I'm also very familiar with Quartermaster as they have a store not far from my last employer (Toy store for LE and security) and have a Baton permit.
          I have no idea about the pay - and don't need to know, but it sounds like you have landed one of those choice jobs. Now, if they own a yacht - your in the money. Need any "deck hands"?????
          Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
          Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

          Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

          Comment


          • #6
            Another thought how would you deal with if he wanted you to stop and run into a post office for him of for that matters any federal property. In fact at a VA you can't even come on property with a firearm no matter how good it's locked up. I know this first hand since I asked the Federal Police before leaving work for an appt at the VA. I would assume that Airports are under the same rules uniformed or not other than police.
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
            THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
            http://www.boondocksaints.com/

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Chucky View Post
              Another thought how would you deal with if he wanted you to stop and run into a post office for him of for that matters any federal property. In fact at a VA you can't even come on property with a firearm no matter how good it's locked up. I know this first hand since I asked the Federal Police before leaving work for an appt at the VA. I would assume that Airports are under the same rules uniformed or not other than police.
              Eh, depends on where you go, I guess. When I was a CIT officer, we had accounts all over (we serviced only banks and ATMs), and we went everywhere with no registration of any sort. This included schools, local government, and state government buildings. Then again, people seem to treat CIT officers slightly different than regular security, so YMMV.

              Comment


              • #8
                if you work for security company, your employer (Security company) have to send copy of badge and patch to BSIS to get approved.
                otherworlds, Security company's Patch and Badge have to be BSIS approved.
                but if you are in-house (not security company), nobody (neither you nor your employer) have to have approval for design of patch and badge from BSIS.

                it means you can wear any design of patch and badge but have to have 2 words "Private Security"(not just Security) and company (or whom you represented) name.
                any shape, any color, any design you like.
                Make nice patch to match with your suit.
                (I use to sew patch to my shirts. so when I take my suit jacket off, my patch and firearm will exposed. you don't have to sew patch to suit)

                if you work for xyz production, your patch and badge shows "Private Security" and "xyz production".

                There is another toy shop in West side of valley.
                http://www.uniformswarehouse.com/pro...let/StoreFront

                You have to have custom badge and patch, this store is less than half of price than other custom badge and patch (and gear) with same quality.
                ( my newly made $35 badges are same or better than $200 badge I custom made on other store. but patch cost you more because you have to make 50 patches because it's custom made)
                They also make gold or silver name plate. it makes you look professional, especially with suit.

                Airport; I guess those old couple may go to FBO (private jet, Van nuys or Burbank, Santa Monica).
                Be careful to go there.

                at LAX, you can not go beyond security check point (Scan area) without boarding pass. so, you can't go illegal area anyway.
                but FBO, sometimes you drive down straight to tarmac which is federal offence with loaded firearm (and chemical weapon:tear gas, mace, pepper splay).
                nobody scan you like commercial airplane (LAX), so you can drive down to tarmac with your loaded weapon on you.
                but it's big offence. be careful when you go pick up or drop off at FBO (Fixed base operator, private air terminal).

                Well, it's Grammy tonight, I have to go.
                Good luck with your new job.
                We might see each other at somewhere
                Last edited by Limo LA; 02-10-2008, 04:33 PM.
                Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

                Comment


                • #9
                  When I pick up my WIFE at LAX (Los Angeles International Airport) I just pull up to the curb, quickly throw everything in the car (including my wife) then punch it before one of the officers there starts yelling at me to move the car..it just occurred to me that probably isn't going to work with this client. I can see there's lots of little details that will need to be worked out a head of time.

                  Appears there's going to be more to this job then just standing around in a cheap suit trying to look sharp.

                  Thanks again for those links Limo LA

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I enjoyed reviewing that uniform site LALimo .......... thanks for the heads up as I found a smaller selection that most other sites but intially found them to be 1/2 price to others (perhaps will consider looking at uniforms for our new DC security people in 2008/9.

                    Yes we have to have the word SECURITY emblazoned on all uniform components and you are also required to send in pictures of your uniforms so it cannot be confusing or considered impersonation of a police uniform. California is very similar to Sydney when we cannot do this and that but the criminals can and yes to have a CCW you need a please explain letter as to WHY you are not in uniform and wearing your licence on display. I have also had to rush through the airport to collect people (work people) and whilst our screening is no-where near as tough as the USA, had to explain to the TSA's why I had on Hi-tec Magnums into the airport (I did say these people are paid $1.00 per brain cell her hour). CIT staff if on the tarmac are required to lock their firearms in the onboard safe whilst leaving the truck for a collection or delivery.
                    "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      How would an officer wear two private security patches on a dress suit? That would look incredibly stupid.

                      With all of the celebrities and high powered people in LA that have bodyguards, I have to assume that there is a way around that.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        As I understand it, the patches would be on the shirt, worn under the Jacket. The jacket would come off anytime I needed to be armed off property. I suspect many of the bodyguards here in Los Angeles don't have the proper permits to carry concealed weapons. This is a very tough local to get a CCW.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by CAR54 View Post
                          As I understand it, the patches would be on the shirt, worn under the Jacket. The jacket would come off anytime I needed to be armed off property.
                          you can wear security uniform shirts (solid white or black) under suits.
                          when you wear jacket, people won't see you wear security shirts under jacket.
                          Then, when you need to "Be in uniform", you can take jacket off.
                          and patch doesn't have to be regular 5.5 inch big ones, you can put 3.5inch or even 3" small patch as long as it say "Private Security" and whom you are represented for.
                          I also like BDU Sweater (Black or blue) with gold name plate ($7 custom made) on chest.
                          when you have to be armed, take out your duty belt from trunk and click it on over the sweater.

                          try to make good balance with normal dress look and legal look.
                          Because you may have to concern someone call police.
                          imagine, you take them to restaurant and park your (his) car on street right outside of restaurant waiting for them for couple of hours inside of car with gun on your belt.
                          If someone sees your gun on your belt, when you get out of car once a while to stretch legs, smoke or pee .
                          He or she (even restaurant security or manager) may call police as suspicious person in parked car.
                          you always wear badge (on belt) even inside his property.
                          when someone sees your gun, they can also see your badge too.
                          Try not to let yourself look like illegal gangster kind body guard.
                          (I don't recommend shoulder holster)
                          always carry small lockable gun case in car, incase of you have to disarm and store it.
                          http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/40081-11967-2853.html

                          BSIS issue you state issue photo security ID ($10).
                          http://www.bsis.ca.gov/industries_re..._photoid.shtml
                          It looks formal when you put it in to Plastic ID holder and hang it from your chest or belt.

                          and make sure your gun is registered to Automated Firearms System (AFS) in DOJ.
                          "if" you get arrested (hope not but worst scenario) for Concealed weapon, if it would be your first such offence and your gun is registered under your name, charge will be misdemeanor (not felony).


                          Originally posted by CAR54 View Post
                          I suspect many of the bodyguards here in Los Angeles don't have the proper permits to carry concealed weapons. This is a very tough local to get a CCW.
                          I've seen a lot of illegal "Body guard"s.
                          I mean without guard card, without PSO card, without CCW, without baton permit etc.
                          even who has CCW, if he earn by protecting property or person, he has to have Guard card (or PPO License) "and" BSIS issue firearm permit.
                          also, many bodyguards illegally carry (even CCW) into private air terminal's tarmac.
                          also Little illegal thing as badge on belt (have to be chest in California)

                          Originally posted by CAR54 View Post
                          When I pick up my WIFE at LAX (Los Angeles International Airport) I just pull up to the curb, quickly throw everything in the car (including my wife) then punch it before one of the officers there starts yelling at me to move the car..it just occurred to me that probably isn't going to work with this client.
                          There are few way to avoid it.
                          You can park in parking structure and walk to terminal and walk back with them (don't forget to bring push cart with you).
                          or they pay for Airport service agency.
                          Agent (greeter) meet your client and call you when they are ready at curb.
                          or let them call you when they at curb.
                          and never leave car.
                          pop trunk, open rear door, pretend you are loading.
                          Security photo ID on hang at suit chest may help.

                          I assume your future employer has RR phantom,Bentley,Benz 600 or something like those kind of car like my clients.
                          but this custom SUV is very good and people who has this love it.
                          It look just like any other regular SUV (not stretched), but it is very comfortable inside and they can enjoy wine or any alcohol.
                          http://ecblimo.com/ECB/Diplomat/gallery/index.htm
                          one of my client is thinking about buying it and assume I'm the one who will drive it, if they buy.
                          Last edited by Limo LA; 02-11-2008, 07:54 AM.
                          Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Thanks Limo LA, your a wealth of information.

                            You also know your cars. My client does have a Bentley ( though it's a sporty 2 door model), and a Maserati (not sure of the model as it's under a car cover and I haven't taken a peek yet) an antique "something" (also under a cover) and around 6 other cars..some probably used by guests. Though I seem to remember them saying something about using a Lexus for airport runs as it's easier for them to get in an out of (they are retired after all).

                            Unfortunately no yacht, helo pad or private jet.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              As I have seen many similarities with my state (in Australia) and California I will relay our laws here. In uniform means you display your company and job title (ie. security officer). If you work in an armoured truck and you become cold and wear an EVERLAST sweater (jumper) over your uniform shirt and you are armed - you will be up for arrest if caught by the police. So if you wear a uniform shirt or coat it must say your company and title. The only way to get around this if you cannot go covert legally, would be a patch on your breast pocket or perfacts and ID card that could clip on. I would make some enquiries as to WHAT you could get away as there has to be provisions for concierge or professionals in corporate attire.
                              "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                              Comment

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