Crowd Control Tips and Tricks

[perthy]

Hi All

I've been working a couple of months as a crowd controller (C/C) now, and although I seem to be better than a lot of my colleagues with the 'communication' type skills (like observation, persuasion, etc), I still lack the experience to know instinctively what to do in some situations. I was hoping the forum could help.
These have more to do with physical effectiveness rather than following SOP. I'd like as much input as possible! Thanks.

Some situations...

Bar Climber
When people climb onto a bar, these tend to be about 4 foot off the ground. Not *easily* climbable. I mean, obviously the patron did it, but it's not trivial to get to the same position. My tendency is to initially get their attention without touching them, and talking them down, reinforcing it by tugging at their pant leg. (To get their attention, but I don't want them to fall off). What happens when this doesn't work? Would you get up on the bar as well? I would on a stage, but a bar seems too narrow. Would your approach change if there were two C/Cs available?

Moving Females (esp if underage)
I've had it happen several times now that i've had to physically remove a girl (eg. failing to produce ID but already inside). One difficulty that faced me (as a man) was trying to get a hold of a person deliberately moving so that the only way you could grab them might lead to inappropriate (though unintentional) contact. For example, girls who keep trying to face you so that you can't grab them without risking contact with their chest, etc.

Enforcing stupid policy
I'm just curious what patter (ie. how you say it) people use when enforcing policy that doesn't make sense or is grossly unfair. For example, people who work in nightclubs may share my experience of grossly discriminatory policies. No shorts (only applies to guys). Girls only on stage. This that and the other. My approach tends to be "I agree that the rule is unfair, but I'm employed to enforce whatever these people tell me. Maybe you should write a letter to management about this?" Of course, this has to be severely watered down when the manager is hovering nearby :P Thoughts on best approach?

Managing children
Similar to the moving females situation. I've been in a punchup with a man bikies are scared of, but I was more petrified when a six year old girl tried to get into my tavern. I won't be racist, but my experience from this suburb is that this particular demographic tends to be very "we know our rights and know how to sue and make your life a living hell". Preventing a six year old (ps. unsupervised, reason she was outside was her parents were in the TAB) from running into a tavern is very difficult when you're trying not to make contact. In that particular situation, I just used my body to fill the frame of the doorway. Luckily nothing happened, however it occurred to me that this may not be the best idea. Children's fists tend to be about crotch height. :S Thoughts?

Feel free to add tips for more situations. I'm just curious.

[EMTGuard]

. Luckily nothing happened, however it occurred to me that this may not be the best idea. Children's fists tend to be about crotch height. :S Thoughts?

The first thing which popped into my head was- WEAR A CUP.

[Guest]

Ok, here goes...

Bar Climber
When people climb onto a bar, these tend to be about 4 foot off the ground. Not *easily* climbable. I mean, obviously the patron did it, but it's not trivial to get to the same position. My tendency is to initially get their attention without touching them, and talking them down, reinforcing it by tugging at their pant leg. (To get their attention, but I don't want them to fall off). What happens when this doesn't work? Would you get up on the bar as well? I would on a stage, but a bar seems too narrow. Would your approach change if there were two C/Cs available?

I get their attention by shining my flashlight directly in their face. I then point to the ground while saying 'get down!!' If they do not comply, I help them down. I will pull you off of the bar. The law is on my side, that's a huuge safety risk and the bar's legal gurus will gladly back me up.

Moving Females (esp if underage)
I've had it happen several times now that i've had to physically remove a girl (eg. failing to produce ID but already inside). One difficulty that faced me (as a man) was trying to get a hold of a person deliberately moving so that the only way you could grab them might lead to inappropriate (though unintentional) contact. For example, girls who keep trying to face you so that you can't grab them without risking contact with their chest, etc.

In Texas, inadvertent touching is not an issue. We have so many cameras in our bar that it would be quite evident if I was groping instead of removing a female. Also, if she tries to hit me, she will be forced to the ground via chicken wing or other such submission maneuver. I do not recognize gender, a woman with nails can do just as much damage as a guy. Also, go for the shoulders or biceps. Generally, you can overpower a woman and grabbing ahold of the arms puts you in control and out of harm's way while allowing you to remove them from the premises.

Enforcing stupid policy
I'm just curious what patter (ie. how you say it) people use when enforcing policy that doesn't make sense or is grossly unfair. For example, people who work in nightclubs may share my experience of grossly discriminatory policies. No shorts (only applies to guys). Girls only on stage. This that and the other. My approach tends to be "I agree that the rule is unfair, but I'm employed to enforce whatever these people tell me. Maybe you should write a letter to management about this?" Of course, this has to be severely watered down when the manager is hovering nearby :P Thoughts on best approach?

I say "tough luck." All bars have stupid discriminatory policies. If someone gives me static about enforcing my rules, I'll radio a manager. If that does not appease them, I tell them to leave, then that they are trespassing, then I will call PD if they refuse to leave. I also remind the ones who want to get rough that hitting me constitutes felony assault in Texas and they will be punished to the fullest extent of the law.

Managing children
Similar to the moving females situation. I've been in a punchup with a man bikies are scared of, but I was more petrified when a six year old girl tried to get into my tavern. I won't be racist, but my experience from this suburb is that this particular demographic tends to be very "we know our rights and know how to sue and make your life a living hell". Preventing a six year old (ps. unsupervised, reason she was outside was her parents were in the TAB) from running into a tavern is very difficult when you're trying not to make contact. In that particular situation, I just used my body to fill the frame of the doorway. Luckily nothing happened, however it occurred to me that this may not be the best idea. Children's fists tend to be about crotch height. :S Thoughts?

Easy, bar policy supercedes state law here with this one. If I say 'no kids,' I better not see them. If I do, I will find their guardians and all parties get to go home until a babysitter is found.

Feel free to add tips for more situations. I'm just curious. ]

I will be adding some other suggestions as time permits. Stupid college :-/

[Nauticus]

What I should comment on is the policy item.

Ask a security guard/crowd control specialist/doorman, whatever, your job is to enforce club/mall/site rules. You also enforce law, but your duty is policies and procedures (it's the public law enforcement's job to enforce laws, not yours). I'm not saying that you don't enforce laws, but policies are your responsiblity.

That said, even if your employer has stupid policies, you're still obligated to enforce them. That is your job.

[NRM_Oz]

Perthy, it comes down to how patient and tolerant you can be in this industry (hospitality). You are called a wanker - you get paid to be called wanker - you go home and you are safe - job done and you come back another time. It is when people take name calling to be a deadly sin and respond with similar lines or name calling in response making things worse.

Having begun in clubs in the olden days and still working on the side developing security management plans for event work (it is mostly from the 1st time a patron walks in. A simple HELLO can go a long way and will build a reporte with these patrons.

In response:

Bar Climber

A table dancer is no different - just need to get them down NOW and if you cannot get them to co-operate, get a friend to get them (male or female) and I even offer my hand to steady them getting down (since injury is likely). 1 community event had a bloke off his face and when I asked him to get down - 20 mates from other tables came to protect him shaking my hand when I asked him to come down and no more to drink. Problem solved and they made sure my car was well guarded that night since "I was a bro, now".

Moving Females (esp if underage)

Drunken female teens are a pain in society. 2 drink wonders make me angry as they become a target for harassment. I personally preferred 2 S/O's YOU behind her and the other bloke playing Moses to part the way. MAKE SURE you get someone she knows out with her and pointing out to the door and you can touch her in the middle of the back if necessary but the crowd will see you directing her out. If a female gets into a cab alone, try and get the rego # and note it down. Underage, well they need someone with them.

Enforcing stupid policy

No shorts is a dress standard as is - shorts with socks - no work clothes - no people with work boots on. Dress Codes are supposed to be placed at the entry to advise patrons.

Managing children

Licencing laws in WA are standardised around the country. Beer gardens (no we don't grow beer trees) are outdoor areas for families to bring kids, drink alcohol but keep the kids from the adult areas. Parents will often let these kids wander whilst they sit and drink all afternoon. Wait till you are in a hired venue inside another club and parents let their kids go wild and as a result you need to move them out of restricted areas and cop abuse from upset parents who need to get up from their chair and be a parent for once.

I would also include:

SIDEWALK LAWYERS:

Those who have a drunken friend who claims to be a lawyer prompting them to argue with you about your future career choices and your mother's heritage.

AA MEMBERS

Yes Automatic Alcoholics who take 3 drinks to become intoxicated and will then create chaos for the rest of the patrons. They will argue about being drunk and their friends come to their assistance getting the whole group removed for their own safety.

DRUNKEN WOMEN

I would have to say the worst category to deal with as whilst a bloke with lash out and go home to sleep it off, women tend to become very vicious and nasty ready to fight dirty if they want to. 1 drunken woman is bad enough, 2 is badder, a group is going to create mayhem.

"YOU WON'T LET ME IN, BECAUSE I AM ___________"

This is another group who will be unruly and will cause trouble based on YOU saying NO ENTRY as they will use the race issue or gender or anything else to ensure they can use this as leverage to make you look bad. It used to be 2 or more guys walking in together but when you consider that women do not buy drinks and men do ............ you are denying income.

There is another post on Bouncing .............. good post by Curtis with a link to a US Article on C/C work and it explains alot behind the liabilities, etc. A good read for everyone wanting to know WHY they are employed.

[BoyInBlue]

Don't be afraid to touch people. Everyone these days thinks touching=assault. Maybe it does, so what. Do what you gotta do, remember police and judges are people too, they can smell BS.

If a 6 year-old is running into a Bar, grab the damn kid and yell at it. I work at a theme-park and we have a "don't touch kids" policy due to fear of inappropriate touching allegations. But one time this lost autistic child (about 6) was running around the park and there were literally about 3 employees trying to "heard" him to the lost and found office because they were afraid to touch him. I walked over, grabbed him, and threw the kid over my shoulders and took him there. Problem solved.

The females not wanting to leave... that is more serious. I always value solid female security officers. Have them do it. If you don't have any, have a neutral female employee as a witness and grab them by the shoulders (one person), or grab each arm (two person).

As for enforcing policy you don't agree with... you just have to do it. That's your job, don't apologize to people for doing your job. Be assertive, command respect.

Drunks on the bar:
Put a flash light on them and tell them to get down. Use caution because they are in a great position to kick you. Once they get down, kick them out.

If they refuse or are too drunk to comprehend, grab each foot and pull there legs out from under them. They could be hurt, true. But if you are standing on a bar you seriously inebriated already, and the odds are you wont remember any of it... (wink)

[DMS 525]

Best way I have found to make a woman comply is to either get them in an "iron claw" hold to the shoulder, or apply direct pressure with a finger or small blunt object to the fleshy part just in from the shoulder. Women are not as muscular in that area, and can't usually tolerate the pain. They will see your point in a hurry.

I know of one fella who had his hands full of a combative little hell cat once; he ended up getting ahold of her bra strap from outside her blouse, and twisting it with all he had! She yiped and yeowed, but she went where he told her to!

[NRM_Oz]

I used to work on a few Xmas Party cruises every few weeks to add some security and ensure everyone behaved as spinning bottles at other boats is not considered a good idea. We had a few wild nights and a few where the trouble was just all drunk women ready to take on other women due to alcohol and wearing the same earrings (oh who knows why). The abuse yelled by them to other boats or families waving from the docks was incredible and I know a few times the Captain pulled into a public wharf and put them off due to his martime laws.

Handcuffs were carried by the Captain and we had our own sets as well as batons and found often it was those on board inviting others on for free drinks or women sweet talking men to come and get them that caused the biggest problems. A few times we had to physically remove male and females from the boat as they refused to just leave and with a drunken group egging them on to sleep on board .......... made things harder.