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Security guard: Shooting man was last option

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  • #16
    Originally posted by OMG_Ihatethisjob View Post
    Seeing it was a group of men, and he was by himself, that was red flag #1.
    He was working in a bar environment, where people will be intoxicated, and likely do and say things they wouldn't have done if they were sober, was red flag #2. He's black, and the subjects were all hispanics; I don't know what the racial situation is in Texas, but in California, hispanics and blacks don't get along too well. The fact that he was looking at a group of hispanics, and he was of a race whom hispanics are usually not too friendly with, was red flag #3.

    If it was me, I wouldn't have approached these hispanic men by myself. If it were 2 men, yes, I'll talk to them (with my PR24 tucked under my arm). 3 or more, I'm going to need some back up if these (possibly intoxicated) group of men decide they are going to gang up on me, which in this case, they did. I think he made a bad decision to approach without calling for some help. If he was working by himself with no partner, then he should had called LEOs to the scene for urinating in public, and indecent exposure.

    I've worked bars before, and without talking to a group of suspicious men, I just walk up and write down license numbers, and they get in their cars and leave.

    I'm a California guard, and we have no power at all out here. We are classified as "private citizens," which means we have as much police power as the next Tom, Dick, & Harry with prior felony convictions. When we are given our guard license, we are not sworn in to recite any oath. The agency that regulates CA guards stipulate that we are only to "observe and report," and not to take corrective action that exposes ourselves to an unreasonable amount of risk.
    I find that hard to believe because as part of the security guard training requirement in CA is you have to go through 8 hr power to arrest course. It says your Primary duty is to observe and report but may arrest like any other private citizen, for a public offense committed in your presence or a felony with probable cause.
    "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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    • #17
      What would a reasonable person do ??

      Originally posted by bigdog View Post
      I find that hard to believe because as part of the security guard training requirement in CA is you have to go through 8 hr power to arrest course. It says your Primary duty is to observe and report but may arrest like any other private citizen, for a public offense committed in your presence or a felony with probable cause.
      Read the news story article again; perhaps you failed to notice he was outnumbered at least 4 to 1. If I was a gangbanger, a person with no regard for human life, and a lone solitary security guard walks up to me with the possible intention of arresting me, I would not let him walk away alive. I would signal my friends to circle the guard, then I'll talk to the guard to distract him. When the guard gets close enough, I will rush him while simultaneously reaching for a knife to slit his throat. I don't know what part of the country you're in, but I'm in Los Angeles, and the gangs here are used to seeing death.

      The Texas guard made a very bad judgement to approach a group of men, with no knowledge of what he was dealing with. A solitary LEO would have requested backup first, and waited for other officers to arrive, rather than to face a group of unknown men, especially outside a bar. The guy who first attacked the S/O had moved too soon. He should had waited until his friends had gotten behind, cut off the S/O's means of escape, and then lunged at the S/O.

      The burning sensation that pepper spray brings on is not immediate. The first 30 to 45 seconds, the pain is tolerable. A attacker can do a lot of damage in that first minute before pepper spray finally delivers the desired effect. The article didn't mention if the S/O carried a baton, which is what he should had reached for when the men started to come forward. When the men had started throwing rocks, then we can argue justifiable homicide; however, he created a dangerous situation when he approached the group on his own, which no reasonable-minded LEO would had done.

      Ever heard of the term "Tomb stone courage?" If you adamantly believe he did the right thing to approach a group of unknown men by himself, well this is America, and you certainly have the right to put your life in a precarious situation like this S/O did. Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk, and getting yourself killed, is certainly part of your Constitutional right to express your freedom.

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      • #18
        Originally posted by OMG_Ihatethisjob View Post
        Read the news story article again; perhaps you failed to notice he was outnumbered at least 4 to 1. If I was a gangbanger, a person with no regard for human life, and a lone solitary security guard walks up to me with the possible intention of arresting me, I would not let him walk away alive. I would signal my friends to circle the guard, then I'll talk to the guard to distract him. When the guard gets close enough, I will rush him while simultaneously reaching for a knife to slit his throat. I don't know what part of the country you're in, but I'm in Los Angeles, and the gangs here are used to seeing death.

        The Texas guard made a very bad judgement to approach a group of men, with no knowledge of what he was dealing with. A solitary LEO would have requested backup first, and waited for other officers to arrive, rather than to face a group of unknown men, especially outside a bar. The guy who first attacked the S/O had moved too soon. He should had waited until his friends had gotten behind, cut off the S/O's means of escape, and then lunged at the S/O.

        The burning sensation that pepper spray brings on is not immediate. The first 30 to 45 seconds, the pain is tolerable.
        A attacker can do a lot of damage in that first minute before pepper spray finally delivers the desired effect. The article didn't mention if the S/O carried a baton, which is what he should had reached for when the men started to come forward. When the men had started throwing rocks, then we can argue justifiable homicide; however, he created a dangerous situation when he approached the group on his own, which no reasonable-minded LEO would had done.

        Ever heard of the term "Tomb stone courage?" If you adamantly believe he did the right thing to approach a group of unknown men by himself, well this is America, and you certainly have the right to put your life in a precarious situation like this S/O did. Exposing yourself to unnecessary risk, and getting yourself killed, is certainly part of your Constitutional right to express your freedom.
        He approached the man urinating then the others attacked him. He did not approach the entire group at first. It says one of the suspects vomited in the parking lot he didn't approach him or the suspect who threw the rock.
        I didn't say the officer should tried to arrest the man I was referring to you saying That BSIS says you may ONLY observe and report.
        As far as the OC taking 30 seconds for the desired effect, Thats not been my experience with using it it usually takes maybe 5-10 seconds to take effect on most people. However Ive seen it take 2 minutes to take effect on an intoxicated subject. A baton against three men ? While your engaged with striking one man the other 2 will attack you. He probably would've gotten the heck beaten out of him trying to take on 3 men with a baton.
        "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

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        • #19
          OC is less effective if deployed in too close of quarters. The suspect is hit with mostly carrier (water) and the OC is flushed away. That typically accounts for such a lag time.

          I agree the officer was confronted with deadly force and reacted appropriately. OC is not intended to be used against a threat of deadly force.
          Last edited by Tennsix; 02-12-2008, 07:18 AM.
          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
          -Lieutenant Commander Data
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