What is their problem?

[DMS 525]

A question I have had for a long time is, what is the problem with a lot of police who have such a negative look at private security? To hear them talk, they think security can't even begin to compare themselves to police in any way, yet they act as though we are a major threat to their existience. It makes no sense.

Some of you may know me from the officer.com postings I have made for years, and a major horn-locking session I got into with a few jerks. I made a complaint to a Moderator, and he closed down the entire thread. It got to where those fools were cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

I was a police officer long before I got into private security, and I can't see why they can't work together. In fact, much more could be acheived if they would pull together more, and use each other to their advantage. Granted, there are a lot of idiots working security who have no business in the business, but that can also be said for LE.

I'm open to your observations, suggestions, speculations, and whatever else, both from LE and Security.

[Mr. Security]

A question I have had for a long time is, what is the problem with a lot of police who have such a negative look at private security? To hear them talk, they think security can't even begin to compare themselves to police in any way, yet they act as though we are a major threat to their existience. It makes no sense.

Some of you may know me from the officer.com postings I have made for years, and a major horn-locking session I got into with a few jerks. I made a complaint to a Moderator, and he closed down the entire thread. It got to where those fools were cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

I was a police officer long before I got into private security, and I can't see why they can't work together. In fact, much more could be acheived if they would pull together more, and use each other to their advantage. Granted, there are a lot of idiots working security who have no business in the business, but that can also be said for LE.

I'm open to your observations, suggestions, speculations, and whatever else, both from LE and Security.

There is a thread on here that's entitled something like: "What's your biggest gripe about LE?" I think TENNSIX, a LEO, started it. I got kicked off of O.com for allegedly posting in the "Ask a Cop" section. The real reason is that I called them on their attitude toward security and they didn't like it. When I look back on it, they did me a favor. There is so much bickering and verbal abuse on that site that I don't have any desire to be a part of it. Look at the number of threads that the moderators have had to lock down vs. the threads on this site. I think our forum is much more professional.

[DMS 525]

I remember that. But, could anyone give you a straight, sensible answer? Hell, no!

Like my wife would say, they are being catty. Talking a lot of crap about something they don't know the first thing about. We dare not say anything negative about LE to them, but they think they can throw all the manure at us that they want.

Makes you wonder if a lot of those people are who they say they are.

[Mr. Security]

.... We dare not say anything negative about LE to them...

It's not just us. Look at how they treat people who post a question under: "Ask A Cop." Maybe it's about a speeding ticket that they received or some other issue that they have with the police. Instead of giving a professional and courteous reply, they all gang up on the citizen. They have a golden opportunity to improve the public's perception of the police and they throw it away and make an enemy at the same time. Just because a citizen asks a question that may seem silly to them does not mean that they need to "slam them." If some of these cops worked in hostage negotiation, we would have a lot of dead hostages. That's also why I started the thread: "What happened to the police I knew as a kid?"

I feel bad for the police that are trying to be professional because they are fighting an uphill battle thanks to some of their comrades.

[Bill Warnock]

It's not just us. Look at how they treat people who post a question under: "Ask A Cop." Maybe it's about a speeding ticket that they received or some other issue that they have with the police. Instead of giving a professional and courteous reply, they all gang up on the citizen. They have a golden opportunity to improve the public's perception of the police and they throw it away and make an enemy at the same time. Just because a citizen asks a question that may seem silly to them does not mean that they need to "slam them." If some of these cops worked in hostage negotiation, we would have a lot of dead hostages. That's also why I started the thread: "What happened to the police I knew as a kid?"

I feel bad for the police that are trying to be professional because they are fighting an uphill battle thanks to some of their comrades.

In defense of both private and public, if we screw up, we or somebody else will not be going home that evening.
In the public sector, a traffic stop can be a life ending experience.
In the private sector, an innocent request for ID at a perimeter gate can be a life ending experience.
Enjoy the day,
Bill

[N. A. Corbier]

Honestly, I think its the "modern" LEO that has the most problem. They're required to take an associates degree. They have had it hammered into their head that the only reason they can do the things they do is because they're a LEO. Period.

They are taught to control the situation at all times.

So, you have some person who wears a similar uniform and didn't have to take that associate's degree.

[Mr. Security]

Honestly, I think its the "modern" LEO that has the most problem. They're required to take an associates degree. They have had it hammered into their head that the only reason they can do the things they do is because they're a LEO. Period.

They are taught to control the situation at all times.

So, you have some person who wears a similar uniform and didn't have to take that associate's degree.

I agree that it's mostly the "modern" ones who convey arrogance. However, there are plenty of police departments in this area that don't require a degree. Even the state police don't require it. (It's probably encouraged though)

[Guest]

Like others on this board, I have been on both sides of the fence. I was a Reserve Police Officer for a major metropolitan city in Southern California (I bet you can guess which one) for just over 10 years. While I was a reserve with the PD I was working various full-time private security jobs. Then I was hired as a full-time police sergeant for a small private college police force. After the department lost its peace officer status I became a corporate security manager, which is where I am today.

The major issue I have had with private security is their lack of background standards and pitifully poor training in the industry. I know this has been brought up several times on this board. I cannot count how many times I have seen security guards violate people's civil rights, screw up criminal investigations by failing to protect the crime scene and other things, and generally act like badge-heavy thugs.

Many (although by no means all) security guards I have dealt with both as a police officer and a security guard at one time wanted to be police officers, but were rejected for one reason or another. The two most common reasons for rejection were unacceptable backgrounds or issues discovered in the psychological tests. They become security guards because they are attracted to the uniform and the (supposed) authority that goes with job.

Yes, I have seen some (a very, very, few) police officers act this way, but they are quickly identified and just as quickly find themselves on the unemployment line and will never work in law enforcement again. The security guard in the same situation just keeps bouncing from one security job to the other.

That being said, at least here in California, these "cop-wanna-be" security guards are found mostly working for contract companies. I have found "in-house" proprietary security organizations to be HIGHLY professional. They have high education and background standards. They (usually) offer high pay and good benefits, thus attracting a higher caliber of security professional. They have training standards and in many cases pay for training for their security personnel. These jobs also tend to be more challenging and diversified and are not just "observe and report" type of jobs.

These are the main reasons (there are a few others) that I will never, EVER, work for another contract security company. I will stay with proprietary organizations.

Whew, I feel better now that I got all that off my chest.

[Mr. Security]

......
Yes, I have seen some (a very, very, few) police officers act this way, but they are quickly identified and just as quickly find themselves on the unemployment line and will never work in law enforcement again. The security guard in the same situation just keeps bouncing from one security job to the other.....

You worked in a: "major metropolitan city in Southern California (I bet you can guess which one) for just over 10 years." and you only saw: "(a very, very, few)" bad cops? Define a very, very, few.

[Guest]

Define a very, very, few.

I had personal experience with four in total. Three at the city PD and one at the college PD. No, I will not go into specific details due to privacy concerns. I will, however; say that two of the four (1 city and 1 college) were committing felonies and got caught. One was prosecuted and is now spending his time in prison. The other was not prosecuted (I don't know why) but she was fired and cannot work in law enforcement again. The other two (both city) were not committing crimes but were doing stupid and immature things that were policy violations, got caught, and were fired. They cannot be cops again either, but last I heard one of them was working as some sort of supervisor for a big contract warm-body security company.

The city PD has roughly 9000 officers, and I saw three bad ones. I am sure there are a few more but I can only speak from personal experience. The college PD had 12 officers and only of them turned out to be bad.

[Mr. Security]

I had personal experience with four in total....

The city PD has roughly 9000 officers, and I saw three bad ones. I am sure there are a few more but I can only speak from personal experience. The college PD had 12 officers and only of them turned out to be bad.

I think the city PD is the LAPD. Am I right, or no?

[Guest]

I think the city PD is the LAPD. Am I right, or no?

Correct. I worked there as a Reserve Police Officer from 1990 to 2001.

[Mr. Security]

Correct. I worked there as a Reserve Police Officer from 1990 to 2001.

I know that your comments are based on the police officers that you have worked with. However, a quick browse of the LAPD web-site reveals a document entitled Consent Decree. This document had to be posted because more than a very, very, few police officers have screwed-up. I doubt that most of those officers were fired. Do I think that most of the 9,000+ police officers are problem officers? No. Do I think that there are more than a very, very, few "bad apples?" You bet.

[Guest]

A question I have had for a long time is, what is the problem with a lot of police who have such a negative look at private security?

Jealousy. "Private Police" aka Security predates public police, so in effect they are actually imitating us. This is why I find it so amusing when they call us the wannabes. Puh-lease.

You find some real dueshes in LE too, why? Well, we are accountable; we scew up then we can be sued and our company can get sued. Police (in CA) are protected by statutes that absolve them from lawsuits when they are on duty. Wow, what a deal. Cover your butt with toilet paper then what happens when your hands get wet? Civil servants running about with little accountabilty (and plenty of discretion mind you). They mess up then the dept doesn't get sued, but the city or county does and in turn carries the negative stigma for the dept.

As I said, night watchmen, security, private police, bow riders, etc.... all came before the public le. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure out who is imitating who.

[Guest]

Jealousy. "Private Police" aka Security predates public police, so in effect they are actually imitating us. This is why I find it so amusing when they call us the wannabes. Puh-lease.

So Mayor, how many police agencies rejected you? All I hear from you is sour grapes.