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DeKalb County Officers killed doing security

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  • #31
    They are cops, as far as I'm concerned. They deal with same people street cops do. Moreover, they deal with criminals all day long-no reprieves. Many states recognized CO's as law enforcement officers. Federal CO's are law enforcement officers.
    Last edited by Tennsix; 01-19-2008, 05:12 PM.
    I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
    -Lieutenant Commander Data
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    • #32
      Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
      So by responding to it and opposing it ,I'm helping it? Got it.

      You will notice the the 1st post in this thread isn't mine.

      .......

      I noticed. Unfortunately, "Responding/opposing it" caused the opposite of what you hoped to avoid. You only "helped" add fuel to the fire.
      Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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      • #33
        Co

        Are LEO's and for the most part, viewed that way by other LE branches.
        Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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        • #34
          I've noticed that. I get alot more "respect" I guess you'd say, from LE then working Private Security
          "What if this is as good as it gets?" ~ Melvin Udall

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          • #35
            Training

            I don't know how do you want keep this topic in what subject.
            it looks related to broad subject.
            But speaking of training.

            Regarding with California P.O.S.T.(Peace Officer Standard Training), Even level 3 reserved officer, minimum training hours are 160 hours and Level 1 Reservoir is 730 hrs + 400 field training still not yet 24 hours full P/O power and get no salary.
            I don't know how many hours for Full P/O academy.
            (I hope someone who went through academy will post additional info. I've never attend POST, those info just came from my computer)

            compare to California S/O's minimum training "Was" just 8 hours. (now 8 hours before start, additional 32 hours after start working within 6 month).
            firearm, Baton and tear gas are additional training.
            also Effective January 1, 2005, all registered security guards must complete an 8-hour continuing education requirement every year.
            Now In-house security (Proprietary Security) have to register to State, but they are required to have No training.

            California BSIS says Requirement of training for S/O in California is highest in nation.
            But when I go Lakers game, Dodger's game and many concert event, there are 100 of look like still high school kids wearing yellow T-Shirt inside and outside of stadium.
            they are "California registered Security Officers" unless they are parking attendants but their T-Shirt say "Security".
            (They should be. because if those yellow T-Shirt don't have Guard Card issued by BSIS, company who sent them face $5,000 x number of illegal S/O)

            I know there are 20 years experienced S/Os who might have Master of Security or even PhD of crowd control.
            But I'm just looking at "Standard and average".
            comparing with Minimum skill and training S/Os and Minimum skill and training P/Os.
            There maybe different result if I compare Highest skill + 35 years Experienced S/O and Minimum skill reserved P/O.
            But I don't and public don't.
            When they compare between S/O and P/O, they compare average S/Os and P/Os.

            I'm not wanna be nor Was-a-Be, and I treat every value of human life are same weight.
            I just compare skill and training and I do respect P/O's power and privilege just because of this.
            Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

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            • #36
              Originally posted by Mr. Security View Post
              I noticed. Unfortunately, "Responding/opposing it" caused the opposite of what you hoped to avoid. You only "helped" add fuel to the fire.
              So your solution is to do nothing? Say nothing about something you see as wrong.

              If you aren't willing to do that (you want me to use this forums search function and show you examples of how many times YOU have commented about something you think is wrong, won't take me very long if you do), you can't expect anyone else to do it either.

              To be clear, and for the record, every.single.time this hypocritical "whaaaa the cops get to be called heros and we don't/the cops are encroaching on our turf/the cops the cops the cops" BS pops up here (from people who should know better) I will have something to say about it, period.

              Real simple equation here, Don't like it, don't start it. If you didn't start it, don't read my posts on the matter when someone else starts it, because you know what I'm going to say and you ain't gonna like it.
              ~Black Caesar~
              Corbier's Commandos

              " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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              • #37
                ..............
                Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by CAP View Post
                  The fact that these guys died trying to "keep the lights on" should be the topic of this thread, not the fact that they are encroaching on our industry and lets whine about it. Show these Professionals the respect they deserve!!!

                  I ask the question, "Did this complex attempt to contract this job out and no company would take it becasue of the dangerous area it was in?

                  We don't know the answer , but we are quick to whine because that was not 2 private security officers that were ambushed and brutally murdered instead of 2 LEO's. The sad fact is, these guys died in a horrible way, and we are reduced to arguing why they were there.

                  I think one reason our industry has such a bad reputation is an enormous lack of professionalism and integrity.



                  Being a company owner and the active Patrol Supervisor for our company, I am going to reverse the rant for a minute and ask a couple of questions and give my opinions on these topics.

                  Why do they get a lot of these details instead of Private Security?

                  We should look at the fact that a lot of potential clients don't want to hire private security because of the reputation that our industry has built for itself. Lack of or very minimal state mandated training, lax or non-existent physical fitness standards, the site of the grossly unprofessional security guard with baggy pants, white tennis shoes and a kick-backed campaign hat.


                  I think these properties look for-Who will be the better deterrent?
                  A Law Enforcement Officer or the grossly overweight "Company X" armed guard that walks the halls of the Federal Building with a .38 who gets winded walking to the snack machine.



                  Law Enforcement Agencies do not actively advertise for "Off-Duty or Security Details".
                  Although alot of the Departments in our area does have someone at the agency who is tasked with accepting "security requests" and posting available "NOT MANDATORY" off-duty assignments.

                  A lot of times the local departments will call us and say they have a property owner who has requested "security details" and they do not have anyone to cover it and give us the contact info.



                  Lack of Mandated Training.

                  In Georgia, the state-mandated training for me to become a registered security officer to carry a firearm is only 16 hours. 16 hours is just enough time for Officer John Wayne to learn how to load the thing and qualify.

                  The majority of the companies that I have seen around and talked to (you can get a lot of information from someone while in street clothes) have either provided minimal or no training to their officers, and continuing education is non-existent.

                  What can we do to change our reputation, to get these jobs that you really don't want, but want to complain about?

                  1. Perform a personal inventory.
                  a. What does my uniform look like?
                  b. Are my boots/shoes shined?
                  c. Do I need a haircut or need to shave?

                  2. Request Training and Continuing Education from your Employer.
                  a. Ensure you get all state mandated training you are required.
                  b. Push your employer to implement a monthly continuing eduaction. (Are you qualified to take on the role of "Training Officer".) If so, pitch the idea to your employer with you as the new Training Officer.

                  3. Stop bashing LEO's. Do you really want their respect?
                  Or is it much easier to complain and moan about them when your identity is hidden on the internet? Because I am willing to bet my firstborn child when they come on your post the majority of the complainers and whiners kiss their boots and follow them like a puppy.

                  4. Weed out unprofessional officers/guards at your post and in the company.
                  Report your co-workers sleeping, stealing, bad attitudes, un-professionalism, etc. Get rid of them and hire better candidates. Security pay is not the best, but there are people out their that want a job and want to do it well. Find them and try to recruit them.

                  5. Petition State Legislation for more stringent hiring and training standards.

                  6. Do your job.
                  a. Follow your post orders.

                  7. Stop doing dumb SH*T!!
                  a. Refer back to the 2 CA security officers that conducted the high speed pursuit with lights and sirens.


                  THE QUESTION IS, DO WE REALLY WANT TO PUSH LAW ENFORCEMENT OUT OF THE SECURITY WORLD?

                  If so, we need to do a lot of housecleaning and straighten OUR industry out.

                  You have the choice of sitting in front of your computer and whining about it, or getting off of your a$$ and doing something about it.



                  *My thoughts and prayers are with the families of these professionals who gave their lives and with the men and women of the Dekalb County Police Department.
                  This here is my nominee for post of the year.

                  About the (recurring and IMO never dying) whinning, I have a theory:

                  It's simple, it's EASIER to complain about what someone else is doing that it is to take care of your own problems.

                  With as many well known, well documented widespread bloody glaringly obvious problems you see in private security, private security workers, owners and stakeholders should be WAY WAY too busy to whine about the police IMO, but rather should be busy identifying the internal problems and ATTACKING them till they die.

                  There are members of my campus PD who by now are tired of hearing me say this kind of thing, but even in our case, until we achieve some form of zen-like campus police perfection and God-like knowledge of Law Enforcement, I don't want to hear "but but but, look at how bad Dallas PD is"......
                  Last edited by Black Caesar; 01-19-2008, 06:20 PM.
                  ~Black Caesar~
                  Corbier's Commandos

                  " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

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                  • #39
                    Civilian job for Public agency

                    as I post earlier, some of other country (at least Japan) has law as no public employee alowed to take civilian job.
                    even temporary or family own business or in vacation as long as they are still "Employee" of public agency.

                    It's a not just for Law Enforcement industry.
                    Even public school teachers are not allowed to do private tutor on week-ends.

                    and if Public agency do exclusive work for private company, they may get in big trouble, not even department head get fired, someone in charge of that incident may face to criminal charges.
                    Public agency are not allowed to make any "buisiness contract" with anyone (Except between public agencies)

                    It's tough regulation but it makes sense to me.
                    Keep public agency in public fairly.
                    Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

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                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Limo LA View Post
                      as I post earlier, some of other country (at least Japan) has law as no public employee alowed to take civilian job.
                      even temporary or family own business or in vacation as long as they are still "Employee" of public agency.
                      Luckily, we ain't in Japan lol. Public Private partnerships happen here, and it's a good thing.

                      Keep public agency in public fairly.
                      No prob, but Then keep private "private".

                      Someone needs to go tell those Contract Police in NC, DC and Ohio, or the contract special police at Nuke sites, or the private contract security folks who work for local governments and get temporary LEO powers while on duty, or, the Armed Officers in St Louis and other places, and every private school/university police officer, and hell, every single private security officer in South Carolina that they all need to stop doing what they are doing with those quasi-public powers lol.

                      If you want a clear boundary, it has to be clear on both sides.
                      ~Black Caesar~
                      Corbier's Commandos

                      " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
                        Luckily, we ain't in Japan lol. Public Private partnerships happen here, and it's a good thing.
                        [/i].
                        Japanese law was a just sample and case study.
                        Otherwise we should not talk about NC, DC, and OH except who are in those state.
                        Every state has different policy and regulations, so as other country.
                        But we can learn something from other states "and" countries.

                        Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post

                        No prob, but Then keep private "private".

                        Someone needs to go tell those Contract Police in NC, DC and Ohio, or the contract special police at Nuke sites, or the private contract security folks who work for local governments and get temporary LEO powers while on duty, or, the Armed Officers in St Louis and other places, and every private school/university police officer, and hell, every single private security officer in South Carolina that they all need to stop doing what they are doing with those quasi-public powers lol.

                        If you want a clear boundary, it has to be clear on both sides.
                        Instead I say I'm not in NC, DC and OH, I'm very interested how those are operated.
                        LAX airport has LAPD, LAX police (city of LA department of Airport's police department), LAX security (private), parking enforcement (traffic control) and TSA besides Federal agent (US.Custom)
                        All of them has different (limited) power.
                        sub-contracted security officer does not have same power as LAPD officer nor LAX airport Police officer.

                        I think Public agency subcontract to private company is normal to every public agency if private company has licence to perform that job.

                        construction workers for bridges and streets on state highway are not state employee.
                        They don't make Crown Victoria Police interceptor, they buy from Ford.
                        Someone who dig Colorado river to built hoover dam was not Federal employee.
                        Some school district sub-contract to private company for school bus operation.

                        but I think they should not allowed to rich kid and parents hire his own school teachers at week-ends to get 100% score every final.
                        (if it's private school it may depend on school policy, but public school are operated by public money paid by public)

                        I saw two local P/O with PD's full uniform standing all night at entrance of small restaurant for my client's company Christmas party.
                        I saw nobody at company Christmas party where my wife works.
                        It was matter of who can afford and who can not, it was almost same number of attendees.

                        I think, Public agency can (may) sub-contract to private company whom has license to do that.
                        But private company should not Buy Public agency's power and privileges by exchanging money.
                        Last edited by Limo LA; 01-19-2008, 09:15 PM.
                        Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

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                        • #42
                          Correctional Officer in CA.

                          Originally posted by SecureTN View Post
                          Slightly off topic, but I am curious, What is everyone's opinion on Correctional Officers?
                          In California,

                          *** CA, 830.5 PC ***
                          830.5. The following persons are peace officers whose authority
                          extends to any place in the state while engaged in the performance of
                          the duties
                          of their respective employment and for the purpose of
                          carrying out the primary function of their employment or as required
                          under Sections 8597, 8598, and 8617 of the Government Code.

                          (a) A parole officer of the Department of Corrections or the
                          Department of the Youth Authority, probation officer, deputy
                          probation officer, or a board coordinating parole agent employed by
                          the Youthful Offender Parole Board.

                          (b) A correctional officer employed by the Department of
                          Corrections or any employee of the Department of the Youth Authority
                          having custody of wards or the Inspector General of the Youth and
                          Adult Correctional Agency or any internal affairs investigator under
                          the authority of the Inspector General or any employee of the
                          Department of Corrections designated by the Director of Corrections
                          or any correctional counselor series employee of the Department of
                          Corrections or any medical technical assistant series employee
                          designated by the Director of Corrections or designated by the
                          Director of Corrections and employed by the State Department of
                          Mental Health or employee of the Board of Prison Terms designated by
                          the Secretary of the Youth and Adult Correctional Agency or employee
                          of the Department of the Youth Authority designated by the Director
                          of the Youth Authority or any superintendent, supervisor, or employee
                          having custodial responsibilities in an institution operated by a
                          probation department, or any transportation officer of a probation
                          department.
                          Not many but few chauffeurs are armed to protect clients.

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