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  • DeKalb County Officers killed doing security

    2 Security officers were ambushed while performing their job. These officers were cops picking up some part time work as security. To many questions here that have been asked on this forum. Because they were cops are they getting better news coverage? IE they are referred to as heroes if they were just security would they still call them heroes?, Would a $55.000 reward be posted? Would they be able to wear their police uniform as security officers?

    http://www.boston.com/news/nation/ar...ad_in_georgia/

    Bolton told reporters that the dead officers were wearing their police uniforms and that the shooting appeared to be an ambush. "It just appeared that they were gunned down without a chance," he said.

    He did not say what led to the shooting.

    "These police officers were heroes; they were committed and dedicated to law enforcement," said Vernon Jones, the county chief executive. "We will not rest until those folks responsible for this are apprehended and justice is served."

    DECATUR, Ga. — Two Georgia off-duty police officers were killed early this morning in what appeared to be an ambush at an apartment complex.

    The two officers, working as security guards at the complex— located in what residents described as a high-crime neighbourhood — were investigating a suspicious person at the complex.

    DeKalb County Police Chief Terrell Bolton says authorities were searching for two males seen running from the scene.

    He told reporters the dead officers were wearing their police uniforms at the time of the shooting.

    Schools were locked down during the investigation in the area about 10 kilometres east of downtown Atlanta.

    Bolton says one of the slain officers — whose names were not immediately released — was a two-year veteran and the other had been on the force for four years

    http://www.edmontonsun.com/News/Worl...6/4776642.html

    DECATUR, Ga. — Two Georgia off-duty police officers were killed early this morning in what appeared to be an ambush at an apartment complex.

    The two officers, working as security guards at the complex— located in what residents described as a high-crime neighbourhood — were investigating a suspicious person at the complex.

    DeKalb County Police Chief Terrell Bolton says authorities were searching for two males seen running from the scene.

    He told reporters the dead officers were wearing their police uniforms at the time of the shooting.

    Schools were locked down during the investigation in the area about 10 kilometres east of downtown Atlanta.

    Bolton says one of the slain officers — whose names were not immediately released — was a two-year veteran and the other had been on the force for four years
    Last edited by Chucky; 01-17-2008, 04:14 PM.
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
    THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
    http://www.boondocksaints.com/

  • #2
    This gonna turn into another "we're jealous of what the police can do and they get respect that security doesn't/ it's so unfair call the whaaambulance!!!!" thing is it? Sorry to say my friend, but this posting comes of as whiny in the extreme.

    As I tell my own co-workers (who are duly commissioned fully empowered academy trained Texas Peace Officers like any other Police in the state, just of the much maligned and less appreciated "Campus" variety) "instead of "hating" on the city cops just because people don't give you what you think is a "proper" amount of "PO-PO respect", if it bothers you so much go be the city police yourself, problem solved".

    1st, there have been plenty of times where slain or grievously wounded private security officers have been hailed as heroes in the press, I can recall a few. Maybe doesn't happen as much as it should, but people shouldn't do a job for glory anyway.

    2nd, (and I don't care if this sounds harsh, it's just the truth), even off duty and exercising the legally recognized privilege of providing a personal protective service (aka "working off duty"), a Police Officer is still a public servant. Bluntly, when a S/O dies in the line, that means "someone else's" (private) employee died. When a Police Officer dies in uniform, YOUR (public) employee died.

    Lastly, the implication in these kinds of "rants" always revolve around the idea that the police are "encroaching" on security. I find the whole idea irritating, because private security spends a great deal of time money and effort trying to encroach on the "territory" of Public Safety and Law Enforcement. if the police should "stay in their place and not do security", then private security should do the same and totally restrict itself to "staying in it's place".

    That means no guns (because only the police carry guns right lol), no "police style uniforms with badges that look like police", no "squad cars" (with variations of the protect and serve motto and call 911 stickers on them), no powers of arrest, no "public servant" protections (here in Texas, assaulting a Security Officer is the same as assaulting a firefighter or policeman), no extra-legal authority what-so-ever like the Deputy Sheriff Powers of South Carolina S/Os, or the quasi police powers of some Missouri S/Os, or the full blown Private Police like in DC, Ohio, and North Carolina among others ect ect ect ect.

    Of course, the very idea is foolish, likewise I think the jealousy coming (again on this board, it seems to never end) at individual police officers for just trying to make ends meet just like you are is just as bad.


    ------
    I work off duty at a grocery store on Saturdays, in uniform, as is my right and privilege (being exempt from the Texas Private Security act) as a peace officer. I don't complain about the S/Os who work the parking lot being there, even when they make arrests or chase people, I help them, we're supposed to be on the same team. But some of them have complained about ME being there (nice and warm in the building with the LP guys) in a Police Uniform getting paid more than them.

    Oddly they don't complain when I'm pulling drunks from the bar across the street off their backs, or when I go outside so they can go, one at a time, into the store for a kind of semi-break and warm up even though I'm not really supposed to, but oh well.........
    ~Black Caesar~
    Corbier's Commandos

    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

    Comment


    • #3
      They were working a Rent-a-Cop detail. A Rent-a-Cop is where a private property owner arrainges with the local law enforcement agency to have uniformed police officers assigned to their specific site. For instance, my father was a police officer. Though he was a plainclothed detective during his normal work day he often put on his uniform to work Rent-a-Cop details such as at the local Burger King or Bowling alley. His presence there was more of a deterance since he, by virtue of being a cop, had more arrest powers and "authority" than the ususal contract security officer. The client hired the officers almost the same as you would hire a contract security officer. The client went to the police station, filled out the proper forms and agreed to pay a certain amount per hour for a uniformed police officer to be assigned to the property. After the assignment the officer was paid by the police department payroll department and all income taxes and such were taken care of as they were done with his regular work hours. Since the city wasn't paying my dad overtime for bing in uniform he wasn't technically considered "on duty". Though this may be true in a sence, he was nontheless dressed in unifrom, his police car was parked in the clients parking lot and he was there to provide a "police" presense to the property. So for all intents he was on duty and was covered by the city liability and workmans comp policy. The Police Department had contracted out police services in such a case.
      So it's sad to see these 2 Georga Police officers gunned down but the fact is they were working as Rent-a-Cops at the time, thus they deserve to be treated as any other police officer who is slain in the line of duty.
      The only problem I have is where the press blurs the line with statements such as "The two officers, working as security guards at the complex—" and "the dead officers were wearing their police uniforms at the time of the shooting". In fact they were working as Police Officers on detail specifically for the property owners of the apartments, aka Rent-a-Cops.
      Last edited by EMTGuard; 01-17-2008, 05:33 PM.
      Hospital Security Officer

      Comment


      • #4
        http://rds.yahoo.com/_ylt=A0WTTks224.../d8u7o1c80.txt

        2 Arrests in Ga. Police Killings

        By DANIEL YEE Published: Thursday, January 17, 2008

        DECATUR, Ga. - A second man was arrested in the apparent ambush slaying of two officers at a crime-ridden apartment complex, and police were searching for at least one more suspect, authorities said Thursday.

        Deanthius Jamal Johnson, 28, of Decatur, was taken to the DeKalb County jail and charged with two counts of murder, county Police Chief Terrell Bolton said. Herbie Deshawn Durham, 32, was charged with two counts of murder Wednesday night after a massive search that involved SWAT teams, police dogs and a helicopter.

        Bolton made another appeal to the public Thursday for information about the officers' slayings, and issued a warning to those still at large.

        "We're gonna track you down, make sure that we find you and get you off the street as soon as possible," he said.

        Officers Ricky Bryant Jr., 26, and Eric Barker, 33, were moonlighting as security guards at the complex and investigating a suspicious person when they were gunned down, police said.

        "They never had a chance," Bolton said.

        One witness told The Atlanta Journal-Constitution the officers appeared to be frisking someone right before the shooting early Wednesday.

        Derrick Murchison, 38, told the newspaper he looked out his window into a parking lot and saw that both officers had pulled up in their personal vehicles.

        "They had asked the dude for his license ... I looked out and he was on the hood like this," he said, demonstrating that the man was standing with his hands on top of the car.

        Murchison said he went back to playing a video game, but then his girlfriend heard shots and he pushed her away from the window.
        One officer died at the scene; the other was pronounced dead at a hospital.

        Witnesses reported seeing two males running from the scene, police said.

        Officer Jonathan Ware did not have details on what led to Durham's arrest, other than "hard police work." He said authorities had received cooperation from the public, including residents of the apartment complex, but could not say whether a $60,000 reward had led to the arrest.

        It was not immediately known who was representing the suspects.

        Both slain officers were married fathers of four and were wearing their uniforms when they were shot.
        Residents say drugs, prostitution and gunfire are common at the Glenwood Gardens apartments, located in this suburb 6 miles east of downtown Atlanta.

        Teofil Taut, who said he has owned the 176-unit complex for about two years and lives in one of the buildings, explained that he hired the officers as part-time security in December to prevent break-ins.

        A service of the Associated Press(AP)
        "I don't do judgment. Just retrieval."

        "The true triumph of reason is that it enables us to get along with those who do not possess it."

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by EMTGuard View Post
          They were working a Rent-a-Cop detail. A Rent-a-Cop is where a private property owner arrainges with the local law enforcement agency to have uniformed police officers assigned to their specific site. For instance, my father was a police officer. Though he was a plainclothed detective during his normal work day he often put on his uniform to work Rent-a-Cop details such as at the local Burger King or Bowling alley. His presence there was more of a deterance since he, by virtue of being a cop, had more arrest powers and "authority" than the ususal contract security officer. The client hired the officers almost the same as you would hire a contract security officer. The client went to the police station, filled out the proper forms and agreed to pay a certain amount per hour for a uniformed police officer to be assigned to the property. After the assignment the officer was paid by the police department payroll department and all income taxes and such were taken care of as they were done with his regular work hours. Since the city wasn't paying my dad overtime for bing in uniform he wasn't technically considered "on duty". Though this may be true in a sence, he was nontheless dressed in unifrom, his police car was parked in the clients parking lot and he was there to provide a "police" presense to the property. So for all intents he was on duty and was covered by the city liability and workmans comp policy. The Police Department had contracted out police services in such a case.
          So it's sad to see these 2 Georga Police officers gunned down but the fact is they were working as Rent-a-Cops at the time, thus they deserve to be treated as any other police officer who is slain in the line of duty.
          The only problem I have is where the press blurs the line with statements such as "The two officers, working as security guards at the complex—" and "the dead officers were wearing their police uniforms at the time of the shooting". In fact they were working as Police Officers on detail specifically for the property owners of the apartments, aka Rent-a-Cops.
          You have to realize that people in different places do things differently. My wife's cousin is a Savannah-Chatam Police Officer. According to him, most agencies in Georgia don't rent out dept equipment or have anything to do with off duty stuff, that's left to the individual officer, as it is many times here in Texas. Some Depts do rent out equipment, some don't.

          A "Security Guard" is someone who is "Guarding" the "Security" of persons and property. If Policemen shouldn't be allowed to be called "Security Guards" for some reason, IMO "Security Guards" shouldn't be able to use the word "Officer" either.

          My state's law (like the Georgia Private Detective and Security Agencies Act) clearly says that Peace officers my hire themselves out as "Private Security" (Click here for more info). Whether you like it or not (and as a friend I suggest you get that "rent-a-cop" chip off your shoulder, so what people have called you a rent a cop, bitterness is not attractive.....) those DeKalb County officers were working as Security Guards, as is their right under the law. I think you sure have a funny way of seeing things EMT.
          Last edited by Black Caesar; 01-17-2008, 06:23 PM.
          ~Black Caesar~
          Corbier's Commandos

          " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
            You have to realize that people in different places do things differently. My wife's cousin is a Savannah-Chatam Police Officer. According to him, most agencies in Georgia don't rent out dept equipment or have anything to do with off duty stuff, that's left to the individual officer, as it is many times here in Texas. Some Depts do rent out equipment, some don't.

            A "Security Guard" is someone who is "Guarding" the "Security" of persons and property. If Policemen shouldn't be allowed to be called "Security Guards" for some reason, IMO "Security Guards" shouldn't be able to use the word "Officer" either.

            My state's law (like the Georgia Private Detective and Security Agencies Act) clearly says that Peace officers my hire themselves out as "Private Security" (Click here for more info). Whether you like it or not (and as a friend I suggest you get that "rent-a-cop" chip off your shoulder, so what people have called you a rent a cop, bitterness is not attractive.....) those DeKalb County officers were working as Security Guards, as is their right under the law. I think you sure have a funny way of seeing things EMT.
            If cops werent allowed to be called "Security Guards" why couldnt security use officer? Officer doesn't mean anything but someone who holds an office. A security officer is a person who holds an office in a security company. I don't know why people try to connect officer with government authority.
            "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by bigdog View Post
              If cops werent allowed to be called "Security Guards" why couldnt security use officer?
              Because it would be hypocritical? "we can use yours, you can't use ours" is a double standard.


              Officer doesn't mean anything but someone who holds an office. A security officer is a person who holds an office in a security company. I don't know why people try to connect officer with government authority.
              LOL, The English language disagrees with you (ie you're only half right):

              From Dictionary.com

              of·fi·cer /ˈɔfəsər, ˈɒfə-/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[aw-fuh-ser, of-uh-] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
              –noun
              1. a person who holds a position of rank or authority in the army, navy, air force, or any similar organization, esp. one who holds a commission.
              2. a member of a police department or a constable.
              3. a person licensed to take full or partial responsibility for the operation of a merchant ship or other large civilian ship; a master or mate.
              4. a person appointed or elected to some position of responsibility or authority in the government, a corporation, a society, etc.
              5. (in some honorary orders) a member of any rank except the lowest.
              6. Obsolete. an agent.
              "Officer" is a prohibited word in some states even, security can't use it. In those states I have no problem with S/Os being mad that Police can be called "guards" but not the other way around. But in most places, security can be called officer, so why can't police be called "guard"?

              Really a moot point, I just find it odd that EMTGuard would have a problem with Police being called Guards when they were guarding stuff and when Georgia law acknowledges they can work in the "Private Security" function lol.
              Last edited by Black Caesar; 01-17-2008, 06:50 PM.
              ~Black Caesar~
              Corbier's Commandos

              " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
                Lastly, the implication in these kinds of "rants" always revolve around the idea that the police are "encroaching" on security. I find the whole idea irritating, because private security spends a great deal of time money and effort trying to encroach on the "territory" of Public Safety and Law Enforcement. if the police should "stay in their place and not do security", then private security should do the same and totally restrict itself to "staying in it's place".

                That means no guns (because only the police carry guns right lol), no "police style uniforms with badges that look like police", no "squad cars" (with variations of the protect and serve motto and call 911 stickers on them), no powers of arrest, no "public servant" protections (here in Texas, assaulting a Security Officer is the same as assaulting a firefighter or policeman), no extra-legal authority what-so-ever like the Deputy Sheriff Powers of South Carolina S/Os, or the quasi police powers of some Missouri S/Os, or the full blown Private Police like in DC, Ohio, and North Carolina among others ect ect ect ect.
                I disagree. I don't think encroaching on territory has anything to do with the tools a firm uses (cars, uniforms, guns). And powers of arrest are legal, so thats not strictly a law enforcement tool. I believe the problem is that public LE (police) seem to think they run private areas, as well. When has a security officer ever tried to expell his authority outside his territory? Probably often, but that's regarded as wrong.

                In the USA and Canada, when a security person is protecting people, he is not encroaching on police duties, because when the incident occurs on private property, it is in their jurisdiction to deal with. I think it's kind of silly to label public and private law enforcement/security with how they do it, rather than the logical way of what they do.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
                  Because it would be hypocritical? "we can use yours, you can't use ours" is a double standard.




                  LOL, The English language disagrees with you (ie you're only half right):

                  From Dictionary.com



                  "Officer" is a prohibited word in some states even, security can't use it. In those states I have no problem with S/Os being mad that Police can be called "guards" but not the other way around. But in most places, security can be called officer, so why can't police be called "guard"?

                  Really a moot point, I just find it odd that EMTGuard would have a problem with Police being called Guards when they were guarding stuff and when Georgia law acknowledges they can work in the "Private Security" function lol.
                  I agree Caesar just a little note read the word after in the government "corporation". but anyway its a semantics game like some deputy sheriffs I know get offended when they are called police officers or troopers are called police officers. Also alot of Leos resent ever being compared to security. "Im not a security guard how dare you!". Whether its a security officer, or a law enforcement officer, we all bleed the same blood. There is no reason to argue over who gets to be called what.
                  "Get yourself a shovel cause your in deep Sh*t"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    As discussed earlier in other posts, we only have state police here and if you wish to have police present for any event (ie. sporting event) you pay an o/time fee for them. Off Duty cops will gladly work for higher duties and usually are in blocks of 4 hours. They are still classified as on duty and wearing the same uniform and firearms as per usual just assigned specific tasks. I have hired extra police for Community Events (amazing how many sicko's loiter around these places) and yes we have paid for them (like any sporting event) and I think it was around $70 US / hr which a poster from Canada said they had something similar in operation. Full coverage for any sickness or illness or injuries is covered and as our police usually have 4 days off in every 4 many consider this bonus cash.
                    "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Nauticus View Post
                      I disagree. I don't think encroaching on territory has anything to do with the tools a firm uses (cars, uniforms, guns).
                      When those tools are designed to resembles tools used by another they are. Like the Security company in South Texas (that had accounts in heavily Hispanic areas) that dressed their Officers in Border Patrol Green uniforms. Or the Wackenhut Uniform based of the Florida State Trooper's Uniform (as I was told when I worked for Wackenhut). There is a company in my area called "Dallas County Protective Services" , complete with 5 point Sheriff's style badge (which is uncommon, most S/Os I see where oval or Eagle type badges), if you don't get RIGHT up on them where you can read the TINY word "Security" on their patches, you wouldn't know you weren't talking to a Deputy Sheriff. ect ect.

                      Lots of private security companies go to great lengths to look like police. I worked for one company that changed our uniform from white shirt and black pants to full navy blue uniform to (in the words of the 'Colonel') look less security Guard-ish".

                      And powers of arrest are legal, so thats not strictly a law enforcement tool.
                      And here is the point, Working off duty security and charging for it is legal as well in many States. So, by your own way of thinking, charging for "extra" protective service" is not strictly a "private security" tool the way many in private security think it is either.

                      Which is my point.

                      And yet some in private security sees it ("it" being cops working security) as an encroachment and get all bent out of shape over "rent-a-cops" lol (which means they are doing the SAME things they get mad at the cops doing, only in reverse), and I think this belief is hypocritical.

                      It boils down to this: If you can use mine, I can use yours, so don't get mad when I do.
                      Last edited by Black Caesar; 01-17-2008, 07:31 PM.
                      ~Black Caesar~
                      Corbier's Commandos

                      " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bigdog View Post
                        I agree Caesar just a little note read the word after in the government "corporation".
                        The point is you don't understand that people DO equate the word "Officer" with "Government" and/or "Authority", which is why I added the true definition. That's why some Security officers get totally BENT out of shape is someone calls them Guard lol Perceived authority.


                        Also alot of Leos resent ever being compared to security.
                        Not really related to this discussion, but I'll put it out there anyway.

                        IMO the reason why some people who are entitled to the title "Police Officer" (a title that you earn after a relatively extensive process that usually includes months Police Academy training, state testing, medical and psych training and unholy background checks out the wazoo and increasingly requires college level education) don't like being called or compared to "Security" has much to do with the General State of Private Security. Note: I'm not defending over-sensitivity, just offering an explanation.

                        The low, in many cases non-existent hiring standards, low or non existent training requirements, generally craptacular pay (the MEDIAN pay for an American S/O is 21k per year, which means HALF of American Front Line S/Os make LESS than 21k per year on average, Less than half what average rank and file police officers make nationwide), the (sometimes real but many times perceived) lack of "real" authority, and the VERY lackluster uniform appearance of too many in Private Security = a way less than desirable image in the publics mind about security.

                        I could be wrong, but IF private security would raise it's own standards to at least match the minimal standards of Public LE (which are probably still too low, but WAY better than they were in the past), cops wouldn't mind as much being mistaken for Security. That's not to say that all security should be force fed through some police academy, I'm saying it would be nice ft S/Os at least had to attend a comparable Security Academy or something.

                        As long as your industry says "you don't need that much training" (or pay....or protective gear.....), YOU won't get that much respect either lol.
                        Last edited by Black Caesar; 01-17-2008, 08:02 PM.
                        ~Black Caesar~
                        Corbier's Commandos

                        " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Why are people arguing over a tragedy?
                          Ethical Schizophrenia is the substance of heroes. -Frank Rich

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mad_malk View Post
                            Why are people arguing over a tragedy?
                            Because that tragedy was used on this forum to ask some questions related to the slain officer's off duty employment as Security Guards (like the Question "would they be called heros if they were just security guards" ect ect).

                            See the original post.
                            ~Black Caesar~
                            Corbier's Commandos

                            " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Black Caesar View Post
                              Because that tragedy was used on this forum to ask some questions related to the slain officer's off duty employment as Security Guards (like the Question "would they be called heros if they were just security guards" ect ect).
                              See the original post.
                              Absolutely correct. No disrespect to the officers but over a period of time many of the issues in this event has come up generally as a solitary issue. In this case it was a series of issues that we have explored on this forum only all being that hopefully we will learn that the variables apply in different situations. When I read this aside from the killing a lot of questions popped into my mind as I understood them. As far as the death of these officers well that is a daily event that we deal with and to say as I suit up and leave in the morning for work to say it doesn't cross my mind for a brief moment I would be lying. If I allowed that equation to rule my life then I would find something safer to do.
                              Last edited by Chucky; 01-17-2008, 10:23 PM.
                              THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A 911 CALL IS FOUR MINUTES
                              THE AVERAGE RESPONSE TIME FOR A .357 MAGNUM ROUND IS 1400 FEET PER SECOND?
                              http://www.boondocksaints.com/

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