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  • #16
    Sounds like political correctness

    I agree with Sgt. Newbie. If You cant see it then why is it an issue? Would they prohibit you from wearing green underwear too?
    Rick D.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Mr. Chaple View Post
      Did you receive a copy of the write up? If so; did it mention vest specifically?
      Yes, I did. It does specifcally mention "ballistic vest". BUT the section of the procedure and policy manuel I was written up for didn't even cover uniforms or weapons much less a vest!

      For the sake of conversation (in a nut shell):

      I was approached by the supervisor last night. He asked me if I ws wearing the vest, I just said "no, I hve a backbrace on.". He than asked me if I would come to the security office and take my shirt off for him so he could see (if I was wearing it)! After a second attempt in the breakroom, the ops manager suspended me.
      Last edited by msofin; 01-19-2008, 09:36 PM.

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      • #18
        update

        I contacted OSHA this afternoon, since the on duty officer was already on an other line the staff assistant put me through to voicemail. I'm waiting for the officer to get back to me. It will be interesting to see how this plays out.

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        • #19
          Sorry

          About the suspension. I don't like the way your case was handled and if it were me, I would be suspended too.

          Looks like the LT and Security Director left for good reason. I would get another job ASAP.
          Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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          • #20
            After the suspension

            Obey the rules when you return, but do get another security job.
            Security: Freedom from fear; danger; safe; a feeling of well-being. (Webster's)

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            • #21
              Originally posted by msofin View Post
              He kept referring to the vest as an unaproved 'unifrom part'. Specificaly "Only authorized uniform items will be worn while on duty". Would anyone else consider a ballistic vest a uniform item?

              I would have several follow up questions to him after this statement. Are underwear/boxers "authorized uniform items"? If so what/which brands are authorized? Are socks authorized? If so what/which brands are allowed?
              "You gotta look like Rico Suave, Think like Einstein and, only if that fails...fight like Tyson." -Dougo83's FTO

              Me- "Should we call the police?" My FTO- "Justin, here, we are the police. Go get em."

              Originally posted by Black Caesar
              some people just need killin!!!!! (Or Tasing, or pepper spraying or whatever).

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              • #22
                I want to know how this OSHA angle turns out. Keep in mind, OSHA has not specifically said that there is an occupational hazard for "security guards and gaming agents" from gunfire and violent attack.

                If OSHA rules that you have a right to wear your vest, that would mean that OSHA believes that there is an occupational hazard.
                Some Kind of Commando Leader

                "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                • #23
                  I bet there are a ton of employment lawyers licking their chops over a case like this. A consultation is generally free and you can usually get one to agree to a percentage of winnings.

                  I do not see how it is legal for an employer to not allow you to passively protect yourself. They didn't even know you were wearing it until they dragged you into the back.

                  It would be like the boss telling you you could not wear latex gloves at a medical because it might give the mall patrons the idea that you think they are disease carriers.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by CorpSec View Post
                    I bet there are a ton of employment lawyers licking their chops over a case like this. A consultation is generally free and you can usually get one to agree to a percentage of winnings.

                    I do not see how it is legal for an employer to not allow you to passively protect yourself. They didn't even know you were wearing it until they dragged you into the back.

                    It would be like the boss telling you you could not wear latex gloves at a medical because it might give the mall patrons the idea that you think they are disease carriers.
                    OSHA requires that employers provide Personal Protective Equipment (latex gloves) if the employee's job duties includes an occupational risk of exposure to a hazard.

                    Keep in mind, if your job duties include an occupational risk of exposure to bloodborne pathogens, there are two courses by law you must be given.

                    The vest is the same gimmick. If there is an occupational hazard of being shot and killed, then the security firm is required by OSHA to start handing out 600 dollar vests. If the company can be proven to acknowledge this hazard, then its no longer, "Can I wear a vest," but "You have to give me a vest. On your dime."
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                    • #25
                      To assist you in your quest I suggest you perform a crime analysis of your working location. This may - or may not support your interests.
                      Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                      Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                      Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

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                      • #26
                        Be sure to keep us posted msofin!

                        I'm also very curious to see what OSHA decides on this. If OSHA finds in your favor, (fingers crossed.. ) this may have far-reaching implications as others have said. Keep us informed!
                        Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                        Originally posted by ValleyOne
                        BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                        Shoulda called in sick.
                        Be safe!

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                        • #27
                          I would consult with an attorney specializing in employment law. I would also keep that suspension letter in a nice, safe place.

                          I know that our big mall out here provides vests for their officers even though they are not armed. When I worked hospital security, I wore one.

                          If you got an attorney involved, I am guessing that their tune might change. These guys are being foolish and it seems that they are in some kind of a pi$$ing match with you.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Curt, you have written well.
                            Nothing beats a comprehensive security survey, I mean comprehensive site specific survey, conducted by people who know what they are doing. Avoid the GSA model at all costs. GSA has a survey format wherein one size fits all. If Building A has a low profile, they then reason such will apply to Buildings B thru Z.
                            The survey must be appended if an event takes place. If the initial survey was done in January 2007 then one should be conducted prior to the end of January 2008.
                            The trick is who picks up the tab for these surveys?
                            Enjoy the day,
                            Bill

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Bill - I use a variety of sources including computerized police crime reports, (if the area PD is large enough), and I use Cap Index. The client pays.
                              Retail Security Consultant / Expert Witness
                              Co-Author - Effective Security Management 6th Edition

                              Contributor to Retail Crime, Security and Loss Prevention: An Encyclopedic Reference

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                the insanity!

                                update (green font, my thoughts, opinions, etc...):

                                I went in to get my pay check today, the operations manager greets me and asks what he can do for me. I tell him I'm there to pick my pay check up. He asks if I have my uniforms to return. Of course I don't the last news was my suspension. The ops. manager tells me I've been relieved of my duty and will not be issued a check until the uniforms are returned. I just askflat out ask him, 'Am I terminated?'. He says "hmm, yes.' I go home, return with the uniforms, the ops. manager in the hall way and tells me to go back to the office, the acting Security Director will take care of you. This guy calls the custodial supervisor in to get me my check. While I'm waiting I ask the director why I was terminated, he replies "you haven't been termited yet, you're indefinetly suspended until an investigation is complete.". It's been a week since I was suspended and they still haven't completed the investigation yet. I told him what the ops. manager told me. He started to go on about the investigation while staring at the desk behind his. This really did add a little salt in my 'wounds', I just looked at him and said "please look at me". I don't think he cared for that very much. I asked him who was investigating. All he would tell me is someone from Tennessee (The 'corporate ' office). I also asked him for the name of the area manager for the company, he looks at me with the expression of a dumb founded fool and doesn't say a thing. I look at him and said ina a you got to be kidding me voice, "you don't even know who are area manager is?". Honestly, how can you be in a supervisory position and not know who is above you in the chain of command?
                                The ops. manager came in and I asked him who the area manager was. He wasn't happy but did tell me the man's name along with the VP for who leads up security. He went on to tell me the VP was the same man i spoke to when I called the company before. I told him, "I did not speak with him, the only person I spoke with was the staff assistant.". I left with my pay check.

                                I still haven't heard from OSHA yet, I will call the area office on Monday. If I still can't get a hold of the officer there I will try the national call center. It is amazing that a 'national' company is this disorganized. Not even TWC is this bad! It looks like I might luck out, CS woman who likes me called the director who hired me and brought him up to date on my situation. He is back with Allied at a very good site adn had her pass his cell No. to me as he wants to bring me on at his new site. I will be in touch with him, hopefully I will back with Allied soon. I certainly will continue to see what I can do, as far as legal action goes, with my situation with ERMC.

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