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  • Need Advice ASAP!

    As most of you know I am currently working an unarmed post for ERMC at an indoor shopping mall. We recently had our Lt. quit, the director of security turned in his two week notice and from what I was told was let go early and the Sgt. position is still vacant.

    The new Lt., yesterday (on his first day of work in security) told me I was not allowed to wear a bullet resistant vest on the job! I told him it has become a part of the uniform for me ever since I started working as an armed officer. He than continued to tell me the client doesn't want anything armed guard related, including vests. I really do not see how wearing a vest is comparable to carrying a firearm. I do not feel comfortable working with out my vest on and will not work with out it. There is also the 'I paid $500 for this and it will not collect dust on the shelf at home'.

    Finally, my question:

    Is it legal for an employee to be forbid from passively protecting themselves on the job?

    I honestly feel this being an issue to begin with is ridiculous. How should I go about dealing with this situation?

  • #2
    Check your regulations/SOP's

    Our SOP's state that you can not wear anything not approved by the company. If they say no, then they mean no.
    "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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    • #3
      Originally posted by FireEMSPolice View Post
      Check your regulations/SOP's

      Our SOP's state that you can not wear anything not approved by the company. If they say no, then they mean no.
      I checked the company hand book and this is not coverd. In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, wearing a vest as an S.O. is not regulated. (side note, it has been my understanding through Act 235 class, as long as you are certified agent, you can carry on the job).

      Honestly, does it make any sense why wearing a concealable vest would be prohibited?

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      • #4
        How would u rate the risk of your assigned post? what is the history of the post your securing? thefts. robberys that sort of thing, answer those questions from a personal side, and come up with your answer... like was stated above if you SOP state that u can't then u can't... good luck.

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        • #5
          Some employers are ridiculous is all there is to it. My last SO job was like that till a year ago when we finally got batons and OC Spray. But my current job now I get to buy myself a vest (will finally feel safer).
          -Protect and Serve-

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          • #6
            There is No sence with your company.

            Sorry to say this, but since when did SENCE have anything to do with a choice made in the business world when made about security?

            When choices are made about security, dollars (profit) makes almost all decisions, and that means less dollars spent for our service, or our service not costing the business any profit by our actions by our actions or performance is the main goal of these rules.

            What you are being told, either directly, or indirectly, is that your safety is NOT the issue here (with your wanting to wear the vest), but that you are giving the impression that the area you work in is unsafe when wearing that big old (and I take it covered by your shirt, not worn over your shirt) vest, which will possibly scare the customers away.

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            • #7
              The only regulations Pa has on security officers is for the use of firearms. I can understand (to an extent) not allowing us to carry anything that may be used as weapon, such as batons or mag lights. But a vest that only passively protects the torso of the wearer, just doesn't make sense. As for crimes at this property, there is bank on property that has been robbed at gun point numerous times, I was 'on post' there last night to 'secure' the night deposit for the mall tenants. Security Officers have been assualted before, including one being thrown through a window by a local wrestler experience roid rage. I've recently been told that a few years back an individual threatend an officer with a gun. Unfortunately, we do not keep records of old incident reports on property. The most recent incident ended up having the perp tazerd by the local PD. But don't worry, nothing ever bad happens at this mall
              Oh, yeah. the local private communities our trouble makers come from ALL require armed patrol officers. At least for me, that says a lot.

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              • #8
                I would wear the vest reguardless of what the Lt says, you have a right to protect yourself (obviously not with a gun on the job) But by wearing a vest at least. If they push the issue from your corporate office, find a new job and call OSHA!
                Apparently a HUGE cop wannabe...

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                • #9
                  sgtnewby, why not go all the way ot protect himself? If his vest is prohibited, surely a firearm would be.
                  "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by msofin View Post
                    I checked the company hand book and this is not coverd. In the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania, wearing a vest as an S.O. is not regulated. (side note, it has been my understanding through Act 235 class, as long as you are certified agent, you can carry on the job).

                    Honestly, does it make any sense why wearing a concealable vest would be prohibited?
                    If you are a law abiding citizen you may purchase a vest in PA. I believe the only state you are not allowed to by in is Conneticut and I believe NY is doing something as well. Although it does help to have the 235. I have been thinking of letting mine expire,not sure yet.

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                    • #11
                      Assess the risk first .................. and see how many incidents have happened before hand. Is it a concealed vest ? Check your regs and I would consider shifting to another site or another company if you are concerned about your welfare. How much are you worth again ?

                      No offence meant to you OP, but we need to remember that a vest is another tool to reduce the risk and assist you in your job, however it is not some force field to make you invicible so I am sure there are other things with training that could also reduce the risk in your duties. If it is a high risk area, then I would consider shifting to another site or another company.
                      "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

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                      • #12
                        First off, we need to know if this is a concealed vest or not, since that hasn't been answered. If we're talking about an over-the-shirt tactical vest, then I don't see any plausible reason for you to be wearing it in a shopping mall setting.. Other than to appear more like a "mall ninja"

                        If we're talking about a standard concealed vest, then I would find a new site or job. NO company will tell me I can't wear a vest to protect myself while I'm in uniform, and if one did I'd hand them my two week notice on the spot. My safety is more important to me than their profit margins or concerns about appearing to be "armed". Incidentally, you might inform that supervisor that a vest has nothing to do with being armed. I'm a firm believer that ANYONE who wears a uniform SHOULD wear a vest under it, because to the so-called 'bad element' out there that uniform makes you a big target, whether you're wearing a gun or not.

                        //rant.
                        Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                        Originally posted by ValleyOne
                        BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                        Shoulda called in sick.
                        Be safe!

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                        • #13
                          Ask him if he is willing to sign and date a typed letter forbidding you from wearing it.
                          "A good deed’s like pissing yourself in dark pants. Warm feeling but no one notices." - Jacob Taylor

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Charger View Post
                            First off, we need to know if this is a concealed vest or not, since that hasn't been answered. If we're talking about an over-the-shirt tactical vest, then I don't see any plausible reason for you to be wearing it in a shopping mall setting.. Other than to appear more like a "mall ninja"

                            If we're talking about a standard concealed vest, then I would find a new site or job. NO company will tell me I can't wear a vest to protect myself while I'm in uniform, and if one did I'd hand them my two week notice on the spot. My safety is more important to me than their profit margins or concerns about appearing to be "armed". Incidentally, you might inform that supervisor that a vest has nothing to do with being armed. I'm a firm believer that ANYONE who wears a uniform SHOULD wear a vest under it, because to the so-called 'bad element' out there that uniform makes you a big target, whether you're wearing a gun or not.

                            //rant.

                            "mall ninja"- haha...thats great!

                            it is a concealed vest (second chance IIIA). He didn't care that I said the vest has nothing to do with being armed. He keeps sayinng he's ex LE, wouldn't he know that? One of my co-workers touched my back, I believe that is the only way they found out. I received a write up for this 'infraction'. I was verbally reprimanded when I asked if there was a policy that specifically stated 'ballistic vest'. He kept referring to the vest as an unaproved 'unifrom part'. Specificaly "Only authorized uniform items will be worn while on duty". Would anyone else consider a ballistic vest a uniform item?

                            Let's not forget that a ballistic vest provides some degree of protection to all blunt trauma not just bullets. I know one of second chance's saves was an S.O. who hit at a high rate of speed while driving home late at night from work.
                            Last edited by msofin; 01-17-2008, 02:02 PM.

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                            • #15
                              Did you receive a copy of the write up? If so; did it mention vest specifically?
                              "A good deed’s like pissing yourself in dark pants. Warm feeling but no one notices." - Jacob Taylor

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