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  • #16
    Don't you love how wives try and control your job, lol? Surprised mine allowed me to switch over to this Armed Truck job.
    -Protect and Serve-

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    • #17
      best of luck to you!

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      • #18
        Could this company be The Whitestone Group or US Protection Service?
        "If everyone is thinking alike, someone isn't thinking."
        - General George Patton Jr

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        • #19
          Originally posted by HospitalOfficer View Post
          Could this company be The Whitestone Group or US Protection Service?
          Neither

          Thanks for the well wishes guys.
          "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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          • #20
            Well I passed my 20 hour class. I just got to wait a few weeks for OPOTA to print out my certificate so I can work armed.
            "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FireEMSPolice View Post
              Well, I had an interview at one of my bosses other companies and they only do anything armed. They said I got top marks but in order to be considered further, I have to become armed. So I put in Paid Time Off (PTO) at my current security job for this weekend to take the 20 hour course mandated by the Ohio Peace Officer Training Commission to become an armed security officer. After I complete this class, I will have a 2nd interview with the Sergeant (who interviewed me today) and the owner of the company (Chief of Security). Eventually, they want me in to the Executive Protection end of the business. This is all cool to me.

              The only thing that makes me nervous is the contracts. Most of which are bars, apartment complexes. In other words, not very nice places. I wont be alone at any time so back-up is always there. The only 1 Officer post is a strip-club but its one man because its slow there and nothing really happens.

              Anybody else do contracts in rough areas? How is it for you?
              Congrats. One thing I would definitely suggest is a heavy dose of training in SOME form of martial art focusing on grappling. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a good example, MCMAP even better. The point being to prevent an unarmed attacker from disarming you and using your weapon against you. Even the most basic techniques, but be sure to practice them at least as much as you go to the range. Being able to completely neutralize someone without hurting them and without getting hurt is a huge advantage.

              As far as contracts in rough areas, know what you are doing and others will know you know what you are doing. Can't think of a better deterrent than that. Be cautious but NEVER fearful. Predators can smell fear a mile away. Nothing sexier to an experienced thug than an armed security guard reeking of fear and uncertainty.
              formerly C&A

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              • #22
                Originally posted by cocknaces View Post
                Congrats. One thing I would definitely suggest is a heavy dose of training in SOME form of martial art focusing on grappling. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu is a good example, MCMAP even better. The point being to prevent an unarmed attacker from disarming you and using your weapon against you. Even the most basic techniques, but be sure to practice them at least as much as you go to the range. Being able to completely neutralize someone without hurting them and without getting hurt is a huge advantage.
                As far as contracts in rough areas, know what you are doing and others will know you know what you are doing. Can't think of a better deterrent than that. Be cautious but NEVER fearful. Predators can smell fear a mile away. Nothing sexier to an experienced thug than an armed security guard reeking of fear and uncertainty.
                If someone tries to disarm me I could I don’t give a damn about hurting them. I will assume they mean to kill me and I will do everything in my power, including inflicting serious bodily injury, to stop them. That is a deadly force situation.
                I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                -Lieutenant Commander Data
                sigpic

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                • #23
                  Studying MMA is fine and all, but keep in mind that MMA is a sport and not a court-approved defensive tactics program. My suggestion on "how to defend yourself" is to take a formal police or security defensive tactics program, then supplement this training (which is more than the mechanics of defense, but also the legal and ethical issues behind the application of force to gain submission) with your favorite MMA style after understanding how a court would view these tactics.

                  This is not to say that you should be paralyzed in fear before acting, but to learn (and have documented proof that you did) what force is reasonable in your jurisdiction.

                  Not everyone is going to try to take your weapon. For those that do, neutralize the threat as quickly as possible by destroying the enemy's ability to fight. They are no longer a "suspect" or a "person just trying to get away!" They are the enemy, who will deprive you of your life if they succeed, and you must prevent that. You must destroy their ability to fight, and fast, before they use your gun to do the same to you.

                  But, as I said, not everyone is going to try to take your weapon.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                  • #24
                    But, as I said, not everyone is going to try to take your weapon.
                    That has only happened to me once in 21 years. But that one time made quite an impression.
                    I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                    -Lieutenant Commander Data
                    sigpic

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                      Studying MMA is fine and all, but keep in mind that MMA is a sport and not a court-approved defensive tactics program. My suggestion on "how to defend yourself" is to take a formal police or security defensive tactics program, then supplement this training (which is more than the mechanics of defense, but also the legal and ethical issues behind the application of force to gain submission) with your favorite MMA style after understanding how a court would view these tactics.

                      This is not to say that you should be paralyzed in fear before acting, but to learn (and have documented proof that you did) what force is reasonable in your jurisdiction.

                      Not everyone is going to try to take your weapon. For those that do, neutralize the threat as quickly as possible by destroying the enemy's ability to fight. They are no longer a "suspect" or a "person just trying to get away!" They are the enemy, who will deprive you of your life if they succeed, and you must prevent that. You must destroy their ability to fight, and fast, before they use your gun to do the same to you.

                      But, as I said, not everyone is going to try to take your weapon.
                      Jujitsu is at the core of Army Ranger and Navy Seal hand to hand combat programs. MCMAP is the official Marine Corps Martial Arts Program. Concerning formal Police or Security tactics training, the only civilian organization in the world that trains Marine MCMAP instructors is a company that also trains Police and Security in use of force. That company, Veritas (Security With Advanced Technology) has a Total Force Continuum program that includes in depth training in lethal, less than lethal and hand to hand use-of-force all integrated into a continuum. Good stuff.
                      formerly C&A

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Tennsix View Post
                        If someone tries to disarm me I could I don’t give a damn about hurting them. I will assume they mean to kill me and I will do everything in my power, including inflicting serious bodily injury, to stop them. That is a deadly force situation.
                        Absolutely true. But if someone is close enough to go for my firearm, I'm not even going to unholster it. I'm not going to unholster it unless firing it is already justified. Gun, OC, Taser, Baton, Hands, in that order depending on other factors, in this case how close the target is to you. I guess it all depends on your training though. My understanding is you use the least amount of force as possible. Once you pull the gun and aim it at someone- unless you are already legally justified in firing it- you are now threatening THEIR life and giving them the right to use lethal force against you. A DA or Jury might just see this as a case of two civilians, John pointing a gun at the Bob without just cause, a struggle for the weapon ensues and Bob gets shot and killed in front of witnesses.

                        An interesting discussion anyways.
                        formerly C&A

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                        • #27
                          The force continuum does not have to be exhausted before lethal force is utilized, in this instance. A person going from my gun has every intention of disarming me. Under the law, I am authorized to use deadly force (knife, hands, rock, etc.) to repel the attack, even if my gun never leaves the holster.
                          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                          -Lieutenant Commander Data
                          sigpic

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                          • #28
                            The Force Matrix is a matrix, not a ladder. I do understand why people think its "steps" you have to take, in sequence, but its not.

                            If someone threatens your life, you are a citizen. Even as a police officer, you are a citizen, and your state law says that you may meet deadly force with deadly force to end the threat.

                            This does not mean that you must impose upon yourself a scripted "ladder" of force. Someone is trying to kill you, you can do anything you can to prevent it.

                            A perfect example would be (lol) the Roadrunner and the Coyote.

                            The Roadrunner is in fear for his life. The Coyote has tried to kill him with a bomb, and now has him backed up against a cliff and is armed with a knife with the intent to kill (and eat) him.

                            Does the roadrunner have to use less lethal force? No, he does not. Does the roadrunner first have to spray the bad guy, then hit the badguy with an Acme lead pipe? No.

                            He is completely justified in making the Coyote fall off a cliff (deadly force), as he was justified in using deadly force to terminate a deadly attack.

                            If someone is trying to get your gun, you are the roadrunner. You don't have to unholster, but you can do anything to the Coyote to make him stop. Be it slashing his throat with a knife or shard of glass, to throwing him off a staircase or ledge.
                            Some Kind of Commando Leader

                            "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                            • #29
                              Some quick things:

                              1. When I stated the different weapons in order, I was speaking from the point that lethal force is already justified. The order was simply about range and safety.

                              2. I am trained to use the least amount of force possible; it is our policy.

                              3. My understanding of federal law/prosecution is that having a gun pointed directly at you is one of the only justifications for use of lethal force. I am trained to not draw unless lethal force is legally justified/I intend to shoot. Together that means if I point the gun at someone WITHOUT legal justification, the person I am pointing it at may legally disarm and shoot me. My point is- good luck proving you had legal justification to point the weapon in the first place.

                              Scenario: Responding to an alarm, you pull into a dark parking lot. The customers display window is broken and two sketchy looking men are standing directly outside the broken window. You pull the gun and point it at them. They disarm and shoot you.

                              How do you prove they were criminals trying to kill you and not innocent bystanders defending themselves from what they perceived to be a lethal threat?

                              *You shoot one of them when they try to disarm you* how do you prove the same thing as above?

                              The real question here is why did you pull the gun in the first place? That is what the prosecutor/defense attorney will ask you.

                              Not trying to get into/start a big argument, just think its a good idea to debate the merits of different courses of action.
                              formerly C&A

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                              • #30
                                Remember, the definition of deadly force is an act that presents the likelihood of serious bodily injury OR death. The policy and training standards you mentioned are flawed. Many a officer has been killed because they were afraid to aptly offset a deadly force situation.

                                I would not draw my sidearm until I perceived a threat. Ideally, I would be analyzing the situation prior to approaching the men. If I perceived a threat, I would not approach them alone. If am unable to avoid a confrontation and they communicate hostile intentions, I would consider my options (rather hastily). I could very well decide to draw down on the men. Even unarmed, three men can present a deadly threat to a lone officer. Bottom line, anyone that tries to take my gun is a dead man.

                                I would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six.

                                An afterthought. Many people think an officer is prohibited against utilizing deadly force against and unarmed assailant. One of my former trainees recently killed an armed unarmed man. The suspect was choking the officer. The officer was on the brink of unconsciousness when he drew his sidearm and shot the suspect. It was a justified homicide.
                                Last edited by Tennsix; 01-23-2008, 09:41 AM.
                                I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
                                -Lieutenant Commander Data
                                sigpic

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