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  • #16
    Originally posted by SecTrainer View Post
    Do you have a reference to this law? In most states, property owners enjoy very broad rights to regulate behavior in which they have a demonstrated interest - such as driving, parking, controlling the possession of "contraband", establishing restricted areas, etc. - so long as the behavior that is being controlled takes place within the confines of the property. There are a few oddball exceptions - one state prohibits anyone but an LEO from towing vehicles even from private property, for instance - but they're fairly rare in common-law states.

    If only an LEO can conduct "traffic stops" in your state, it would technically prohibit security from even manning entrance gates, which could certainly be challenged as constituting "traffic stops".

    I think the bigger issue with security conducting traffic stops is not a matter of their authority to do so, but the fact that most security officers are not trained in the proper techniques. Traffic stops are among the most risky of interactions with citizens and should only be conducted by trained personnel.
    I’m not arguing whether security officers should be empowered to make stops on private property; I have no problem with that, if the officers are properly trained. Indiana law does provide for traffic enforcement and regulation, on private property, but not for actual “pull over’s”.


    Limiting access, at an entrance gate, is not a traffic stop. In this case, you are not detaining anyone, issuing a summons, or conducting an arrest. The driver is free to turn around and leave.
    Last edited by Tennsix; 01-03-2008, 02:13 PM.
    I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
    -Lieutenant Commander Data
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    • #17
      The director of our department sent an inquiry to our local PD, and to our law school, which is part of the college. I did not think about attorney general, but that would probably also be a good idea. I noticed while on patrol last night that we had a tow truck come through campus...he was running amber and red led lights. I guess the PD has not said anything to him about it, and probably will not! Thanks for the replies everyone.

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      • #18
        Were is red's 360 or 180?
        I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
        -Lieutenant Commander Data
        sigpic

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        • #19
          If you can run any color light bar on private property but not off it, you can get a black vinal cover from galls to cover the light bar before leading property. It has silk screened on it "OUT OF SERVICE". I would think that would work for you.

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          • #20
            Fellas, as I stated earlier, get colored LED's with clear lenses. When they are off, there is no color visible. Problem solved!
            "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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            • #21
              Originally posted by FireEMSPolice View Post
              Fellas, as I stated earlier, get colored LED's with clear lenses. When they are off, there is no color visible. Problem solved!
              True enough, and a bonus... If you happen to drive a retired PD or HP vehicle that still retains the outward appearance of a likely LEO vehicle (antennas, bullbar, spotlight, etc.), the sight of you on the interstate may easily keep the numbnuts about to pass you doing 90 mph from doing so, and to continue on at a safe speed that doesn't endanger himself or other motorists...
              “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
              "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

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              • #22
                Originally posted by flashlightcop509 View Post
                True enough, and a bonus... If you happen to drive a retired PD or HP vehicle that still retains the outward appearance of a likely LEO vehicle (antennas, bullbar, spotlight, etc.), the sight of you on the interstate may easily keep the numbnuts about to pass you doing 90 mph from doing so, and to continue on at a safe speed that doesn't endanger himself or other motorists...
                And it will also encourage them to drive 54 miles an hour in front of you when you're trying to get someplace fast. And it will also encourage the "real" cops to stop you for going 56 in a 55.
                "Striking terrific terror in the hearts of criminals everywhere" Since 1977.

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by Tennsix View Post
                  I’m not arguing whether security officers should be empowered to make stops on private property; I have no problem with that, if the officers are properly trained. Indiana law does provide for traffic enforcement and regulation, on private property, but not for actual “pull over’s”.


                  Limiting access, at an entrance gate, is not a traffic stop. In this case, you are not detaining anyone, issuing a summons, or conducting an arrest. The driver is free to turn around and leave.
                  This statute allows private concerns to enter into traffic enforcement agreements with the government, for the writing of "real" parking tickets.

                  Does your state, through specific statute or case law, prohibit a private person from stopping traffic on private property? If not, then this would kick in.

                  IC 9-21-18-14
                  Owners of property; regulation of property use; powers
                  Sec. 14. Except as provided in sections 9 through 13 of this chapter, nothing in this chapter may be construed to prevent the owner of real property used by the public for purposes of vehicular travel by permission of the owner and not as a matter of right from:
                  (1) prohibiting the property's use;
                  (2) requiring other, different, or additional conditions than those specified in this chapter; or
                  (3) otherwise regulating the property's use as determined best to the owner.
                  As added by P.L.2-1991, SEC.9.
                  In the absence of statutory prohibition, there is implied authorization.
                  Some Kind of Commando Leader

                  "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
                    And it will also encourage them to drive 54 miles an hour in front of you when you're trying to get someplace fast. And it will also encourage the "real" cops to stop you for going 56 in a 55.
                    What is it, folks, with the whole, "Lets look like the police" gimmick? I wrote a large rant about this. You do not need to look like the police, the bad people on your property should fear you MORE than the police. Police leave. Security tends to remain.
                    Some Kind of Commando Leader

                    "Every time I see another crazy Florida post, I'm glad I don't work there." ~ Minneapolis Security on Florida Security Law

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
                      And it will also encourage them to drive 54 miles an hour in front of you when you're trying to get someplace fast. And it will also encourage the "real" cops to stop you for going 56 in a 55.
                      Been there and got the T-Shirt for both. Glad the second didn't involve an orange jumpsuit.

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                      • #26
                        Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                        What is it, folks, with the whole, "Lets look like the police" gimmick? I wrote a large rant about this. You do not need to look like the police, the bad people on your property should fear you MORE than the police. Police leave. Security tends to remain.
                        That was not the intent of my post about LED's. I don't want anyone impersonating the police.
                        "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by N. A. Corbier View Post
                          What is it, folks, with the whole, "Lets look like the police" gimmick? I wrote a large rant about this. You do not need to look like the police, the bad people on your property should fear you MORE than the police. Police leave. Security tends to remain.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Badge714 View Post
                            And it will also encourage them to drive 54 miles an hour in front of you when you're trying to get someplace fast. And it will also encourage the "real" cops to stop you for going 56 in a 55.
                            Not gonna happen, at least in my state...

                            Hell, VSP Troopers I've talked with personally won't stop you unless you're driving in excess of 75 mph (speed limit here is 65, minimum speed is 40 mph without LEO involment on a roadway)...

                            And before this snowballs into a "wannabe" or "lookalike" debate, as far as I'm concerned, you could be well within the law and state statutes insomuch as say, owning a crown vic with an antenna or two on it, and not being labeled as a fake cop... as long as you do not have distinct graphics plainly saying or implying you are LEO, or happen to have dash/deck lights which are neither red/blue, red/red, or blue/blue, there won't be a problem here...

                            Wether you choose to project an image within the limits of the law is up to you..

                            BUT...

                            As I said, if you happen to drive such a vehicle, and you see Mr. Smith from Mass. quickly coming up on your 6 while you are doing 65 - 70, you can bet your butt he may think twice about blowing by you, and possibly preventing a rear end 10-50 at that speed with someone changing lanes without looking....

                            My state of mind is such that it is better to prevent a motor vehicle accident before me than it is to be stuck on the interstate for an hour after one happens...
                            Last edited by flashlightcop509; 01-03-2008, 10:45 PM.
                            “Two wrongs don't make a right, but three rights make a left”
                            "I swear to God, I'm going to pistol whip the next guy that says 'Shenanigans' "... Capt. O'Hagan, "Super Troopers"

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                            • #29
                              Soon in Florida security by state statute will be required and designated to use green and amber for there vehicles. so if you see green and amber it will be security. as for traffic stops etc it depends on the property and what the owner/Property manager/HOA request. IN some places i have run radar and issued citations which if not paid end in a lien against the home owners property. For cars where the home owner associated with said car is unknown due to residents allowing people in on there own/gate runners there cars get towed in some places others nothing is done. Your mileage and laws may vary.
                              Ethical Schizophrenia is the substance of heroes. -Frank Rich

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                              • #30
                                The thing about our campus is that we have a large number of private campus roads, but we also have several city roads going straight through campus. We are right in the middle of a city of a little over 30,000. If anyone would like to look it up, it is MS College in Clinton, MS. I started thinking about something while at work last night. One of my supervisors, which is also a retired fire marshal and arson investigator, said that we are essentially volunteer firemen since we are the first responders at all fire alarm and medical emergency calls on campus. I have remembered times where I have received emergency calls, and just put on my hazard lights and just slowed for stop signs and exceeded the speed limit on the city streets through campus and passed police officers. They have never done anything, except for a few times where they turned around to follow to see where I was going. As I stated earlier, we have an extremely close relationship with the local PD and FD, and keep in close contact with them at all times. We even pay PD officers to sit on campus at night to assist us if needed. I wonder if any of this will play into what we can or can't have. I truly can't imagine any of the PD officers stopping us for running to an emergency when they will probably be called by us once we get there if we need additional assistance.

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