Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Infraction question...

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Infraction question...

    Long story short, i worked for a security company, i left them, they had not told me i was tresspassed from the main office, i went to pick up my paycheck, which was over 1 month late, i told the on site officer to call the company owner he didnot, instead he called the police, i was charged with criminal tresspass in 11/21/06, at infraction level, was found guilty via trial,

    my question is the state of utah took no action as it is only an infraction against my guard card, however looking at several other places, mainly denver,colorado on their applications it says have you ever been convicted of any crimes, my question would be would i answer this, as from what i understand from BCI here in utah, in most cases they want to know only about felony or misdermeanors , and do not consider infraction a conviction, as only fines are paid....

    now my question is i have not had the time to call the denver office of excise and tax, whom would probally know the answer to this, if some one here knows the answer it would be helpful to me, the question is WOULD the city/county of denver disquailfy my application for a guard company if i reported the infraction ? or should i just not report it hoping they are only asking for felony or misdermeanor convictions.....

    I ask the question because i am confused. the state of utah will not let me expunge the infraction till 3 years after... so i have 2 more years till i can get it expunged, however my state here took not action against my stating its only an "infraction".

    opinions and comments please on how i should handle appling for guard company in denver

    thanks much!
    Its not how we die that counts.....
    Its not how we lived that counts....
    all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

  • #2
    I would not mention it since every application I have ever filled out was just interested in the major stuff.

    Plus, getting the cops called on you by a former employer and being found guilty in a court of law would be a HUGE strike against you from any reputable firm. Their may be some warm body companies that look the other way, but I doubt you want to work for them.

    As someone who hires people, if I found out that an applicant had been charged with trespass from a former employer I would throw his/her application in the trash.

    Not to be too harsh since you seem to be a very diligent officer from your posts on here. It would seem that any company would be happy to have you if they had more to go on then just one incident with a former employer.

    Comment


    • #3
      In my statem an infraction is not a crime; it is a civil matter. Therefore, you would not have been convicted of a crime.
      I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
      -Lieutenant Commander Data
      sigpic

      Comment


      • #4
        In my state, if you were convicted of criminal trespass, you were convicted of a crime. If I were an employer and I found out you had this conviction after you marked "No." You would not have a job at my company. I would personally be more understanding if you explained the situation.
        "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
        "The Curve" 1998

        Comment


        • #5
          In Indiana, tresspassing is a crime. It can be a misdemeanor or a felony, depending on the circumstances. In that case yes, it would be a criminal conviction. But here, infractions are civil matters are not considered a criminal act. That said, most security/law enforcment application I have seen do ask about infraction convictions.
          I believe I speak for everyone here sir, when I say, to Hell with our orders.
          -Lieutenant Commander Data
          sigpic

          Comment


          • #6
            Seems to me you've answered your own question when you say you were charged with criminal trespass, and were "found guilty". Such terms are usually not applied to anything but crimes.

            However, whether this is technically considered a "crime" or an "infraction", I would suggest you reveal the incident rather than concealing it. Nothing good can ever come from concealment. More than one guy has been handed his walking papers with the comment: "You're being fired because you covered something up. If you had been honest about this, it would not have prevented you from being employed." In other words, you are laying yourself open to being fired for lying, not for trespassing.

            What's the point in getting a job only so you can spend your time worrying about when they're going to find out that you failed to disclose something?
            "Every betrayal begins with trust." - Brian Jacques

            "I can't predict the future, but I know that it'll be very weird." - Anonymous

            "There is nothing new under the sun." - Ecclesiastes 1:9

            "History, with all its volumes vast, hath but one page." - Lord Byron

            Comment


            • #7
              I don't want to come off as sounding too harsh, but if I found out about the conviction, I wouldn't hire you.

              Is there more to the story? Was this an in your face kind of action? Did they ask you to leave? Did you bring an attorney to court? Lots of questions here...

              Around here, a tresspass notice needs to be served on the person tresspassed.
              ATTN. SPECOPS AND GECKO45 my secret username is CIDDECEP and I am your S2. My authorization code is Six Wun Quebec Oscar Fife. Your presence here is tactically dangerous and compromises our overall mission parameter. Cease and desist all activity on this board. Our “enemies” are deft at computer hacking and may trace you back to our primary locale. You have forced me to compromise my situation to protect your vulnerable flank. This issue will be addressed later.

              Comment


              • #8
                okay well ill post the long story here as some have asked, the company i had worked for at the time of the incident, was having payroll problems stating the client hadnt paid the company owner, the original owner then sold the company to one of the employees, then the second owner began to have payroll problems to, i was about to lose my apartment my phone was already shut off, i was out of groceries, the state disqualified from food stamps and rent assistance as i have no kids, and supposed to be making to much money although i hadnt been paid in excess of 3 checks,

                i had then decide to quit, i left the company on oct. 29th, i told the owner i was quiting and would like to pick up my pay check on the 30th which was suposed to be payday, it never arrived, i went to the company office, the owner stated the checks will be here tommorow, they didnt arrive, same story when i returned the next day, i then called the owner everyday asking where my check was, he kept giving me the line well such and such client hasnt paid me yet, so i cant pay you till they do, i called the such and such client to inquire they were helpful in responding saying yes we did pay the owner, we can show you proof if need be ( i was threating legal action against client and company owner at this point),

                i then called the company owner by this time its around nov. 12th, still no paycheck, the company owner said that they must have paid the first owner by mistake as the first owner still had partial control over the company, the first owner then moved to texas around nov. 15th, i still inquired about my paycheck the second company owner then said come down on the 17th ill have a check for you, so i did, he was not there, no check was there, and he could not be reached, he said come down on the 18th same story he was not there check was not there, so on the 19th he said he would drop my check by my house by 6pm, he never did, i then left him a voicemail stating that if i do not get my check i will report you to the BBB, DOPL, IRS, Labor Commision etc,

                he then didnt return my call so on the 20th he says yeah you can come down and get your check after 8pm, so i do so well they guy thats down there says im not supposed to be on property so i left, and called the company owner he says he is tied up with some family matters and to come to the property after 10pm tommorow, so i do so on the 21st, turns out to be worst mistake of my life, as still no check, and the guard called the police instead of the company owner like i was told would happen, the police arrive, then the company owner pulls in right as the police pull in, i get my check, the police where gonna let me walk away, but the company owner said make sure you charge her, so i was charged with infraction criminal tresspass. court was a few months later, i could not afford an attoreny asked for one to be assigned, they said i make (supposed to) to much money to have one appointed although i had not been paid in sometime,

                i made the mistake of being out of money, and not making copies of documents i sent to dopl, to take to court as i couldnt afford to do so at the time, i told this to the judge that all my paperwork was with dopl, and if he could call them and have them fax it over, he denied my request, i tried to self represent which i failed at doing so, but i also could not afford a lawyer. as many want retainer money upfront which is something i did not have. the judge ends up finding me guilty but tells me when im on bench giving my statement he thinks im innocent but since i do not have evidence to support my case he has to find me guilty, i was fined 132.00 dollars which i paid, and that was end of story, now i have criminal tresspass charge on my record till 2 more years pass and it can be expunged. I couldnt afford a lawyer so i did not appeal in the time alotted.
                Last edited by UtahProtectionForce; 12-29-2007, 07:07 PM.
                Its not how we die that counts.....
                Its not how we lived that counts....
                all that matters is how we saved that one life that one time by being in the right place at the right time....

                Comment


                • #9
                  I once went back to the site where I worked for 1 night having been told I had worked 12 hours on a public holiday for experience only when I asked when I was to be paid. I went after the manager who vanished but could leave abusive messages when I was unable to take his call. I collected the site books and shook hands with the staff member before exiting and copying the books. He went to have me charged for theft and I asked him to go right ahead. It was a bluff and I knew what I was doing was incorrect but I was missing $400.00 from my wallet for that night.

                  Biggest mistake was he had to face our Security Licencing committee over a complaint I made about him and an incident I witnessed of violence by 1 of his butt buddies who bashed a patron outside in a carpark. I ended up not getting paid but it threw a spanner into his works and eventually he had to sell his business to pay for the legal costs as his insurance would not cover it.
                  "Keep your friends close and your enemies even closer" Sun Tzu

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by UtahProtectionForce View Post
                    okay well ill post the long story here as some have asked, the company i had worked for at the time of the incident, was having payroll problems stating the client hadnt paid the company owner, the original owner then sold the company to one of the employees, then the second owner began to have payroll problems to, i was about to lose my apartment my phone was already shut off, i was out of groceries, the state disqualified from food stamps and rent assistance as i have no kids, and supposed to be making to much money although i hadnt been paid in excess of 3 checks, i had then decide to quit, i left the company on oct. 29th, i told the owner i was quiting and would like to pick up my pay check on the 30th which was suposed to be payday, it never arrived, i went to the company office, the owner stated the checks will be here tommorow, they didnt arrive, same story when i returned the next day, i then called the owner everyday asking where my check was, he kept giving me the line well such and such client hasnt paid me yet, so i cant pay you till they do, i called the such and such client to inquire they were helpful in responding saying yes we did pay the owner, we can show you proof if need be ( i was threating legal action against client and company owner at this point), i then called the company owner by this time its around nov. 12th, still no paycheck, the company owner said that they must have paid the first owner by mistake as the first owner still had partial control over the company, the first owner then moved to texas around nov. 15th, i still inquired about my paycheck the second company owner then said come down on the 17th ill have a check for you, so i did, he was not there, no check was there, and he could not be reached, he said come down on the 18th same story he was not there check was not there, so on the 19th he said he would drop my check by my house by 6pm, he never did, i then left him a voicemail stating that if i do not get my check i will report you to the BBB, DOPL, IRS, Labor Commision etc, he then didnt return my call so on the 20th he says yeah you can come down and get your check after 8pm, so i do so well they guy thats down there says im not supposed to be on property so i left, and called the company owner he says he is tied up with some family matters and to come to the property after 10pm tommorow, so i do so on the 21st, turns out to be worst mistake of my life, as still no check, and the guard called the police instead of the company owner like i was told would happen, the police arrive, then the company owner pulls in right as the police pull in, i get my check, the police where gonna let me walk away, but the company owner said make sure you charge her, so i was charged with infraction criminal tresspass. court was a few months later, i could not afford an attoreny asked for one to be assigned, they said i make (supposed to) to much money to have one appointed although i had not been paid in sometime, i made the mistake of being out of money, and not making copies of documents i sent to dopl, to take to court as i couldnt afford to do so at the time, i told this to the judge that all my paperwork was with dopl, and if he could call them and have them fax it over, he denied my request, i tried to self represent which i failed at doing so, but i also could not afford a lawyer. as many want retainer money upfront which is something i did not have. the judge ends up finding me guilty but tells me when im on bench giving my statement he thinks im innocent but since i do not have evidence to support my case he has to find me guilty, i was fined 132.00 dollars which i paid, and that was end of story, now i have criminal tresspass charge on my record till 2 more years pass and it can be expunged. I couldnt afford a lawyer so i did not appeal in the time alotted.
                    Paragraphs Uta, paragraphs. The "big block of text" is really hard to read.

                    On every application I can remember filling out it said "if yes, please explain on the back of this form or on a separate sheet of paper" ect ect. Do that with everyone you apply to even if you have to take your own paper.

                    Also, Attach a printed copy of the of the relevant section of Utah law concerning Trespass. If Trespass is an "infraction" in Utah but a more serious "crime" in another state you basically need to educate the employer of that fact, because you can't expect the employer to know the difference between the laws in their state and the laws of the state you are coming from.

                    Whatever you do don't lie or mislead. Not telling an employer would be misleading, period.

                    Hope that helps...
                    ~Black Caesar~
                    Corbier's Commandos

                    " "The trouble with Socialism is that eventually you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OMG...I just read my employment handbook

                      Never have done that before, but I was curious. With my current employer, if you leave or are asked to leave employment, you are banned from the premises for up to 90 days (at the discretion of the mgmt.) The exception is with a written request, i.e. to pick up your check, that had been approved. Kinda crappy, but, hey, they could mail the check too. Either way, that sucks. Hope it doesn't affect the job apps.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I feel your pain Utah. That was a bad situation. I still don't see how they charged you with criminal trespass when you went down there to pick up your check.

                        I am not advocating lying on an application. I am just saying that I wouldn't answer any question that isn't specifically asked if I were you. If they ask whether or not you have been convicted of a felony, the answer is "no", not "no, but I was convicted of....."

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Trespassed for trying to pick up a paycheck? WTF? Where is the professional courtesy? I think an attorney is in order for you.

                          Have you ever thought of direct deposit at all?
                          "I am not a hero. I am a silent guardian, a watchful protector"

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by FireEMSPolice View Post
                            Trespassed for trying to pick up a paycheck? WTF? Where is the professional courtesy? I think an attorney is in order for you.

                            Have you ever thought of direct deposit at all?
                            Most places that I know of will not use direct deposit for a termination cheque.
                            I enforce rules and regulations, not laws.
                            Security Officers. The 1st First Responders.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              In California, a traffic violation is an infraction. If you don't sign the ticket, you go directly to jail. What I'm trying to say here, for your protection UTAH, is that while an infraction in some states may be a civil thing, in other states it is a criminal thing.

                              When filling out an application, the answers you give are only important for the company, in most instances, on whether you get the job or not. If they found out you lied after you got the job, they could fire you. Not good, but not really too bad.

                              When the application goes to the state or city governments (if that's the case) for review, and to have your finger prints run through systems for a criminal history check, things may get a little more harsh, in that now you are seen by the state as (possibly) providing false info to get the job. If that info is kept by the government, it could be provided to future employer prospects, and your attempt to get licensed by that governmental agency will probably never happen, at least in the short term.

                              Now, if, as part of the process to get approved by the licensing agency, you fill out one of their forms, and it asks about any previous convictions (hopefully it would just ask about any prior felony or misdemeanor convictions, which would take the infraction out of the equasion), and you don't list the infraction conviction, and you sign it under penalty of PERJURY, you will possibly have just committed a felony.

                              So, it will be worth your time, and possible freedom, to call the court jurisdiction where you were convicted, and find out if the conviction was considered a civil act, or a criminal act. If they say civil, try to get a letter from them stating such. If it is criminal (which it sounds like to me) at least you know.

                              As for the application processes, whether it is only for the company you are applying for, or also a governmental application of some sort, answer all questions TRUTHFULLY, but read the questions carefully, and if they don't ask about infractions, don't include that info.

                              Good luck with your job hunting.

                              Comment

                              Leaderboard

                              Collapse
                              Working...
                              X