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Q for WA SO's re: CCW on the job

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  • Q for WA SO's re: CCW on the job

    This question is for SO's in Washington. I seem to remember reading somewhere, a while back, that you are not allowed to carry concealed when on duty. I recently wanted to look up this law, but was unable to find it in the RCW. Was I imagining things, or am I just not finding it?

  • #2
    Don't know where you heard this, but there's two ways around this question. If you are armed you're good to carry concealed if you've qualified with the weapon and the Co. authorizes it. If you're unarmed it is unlawful for you to carry a firearm regardless of whether its concealed or open.
    "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
    "The Curve" 1998

    Comment


    • #3
      ^ +1 to what BHR said.

      If you have a CCW, and you've got your armed s/o card, you can carry concealed **as long as your company allows it.** Keep in mind though you need both. The way the law was explained to me, if you don't have a CCW but you have your armed card and carry on duty, your weapon needs to be stowed in the trunk when you're on your way to/from work since you're no longer "on duty." The armed license doesn't cover you when you're not in any official capacity, so you would need a CCW to leave it in the holster for the drive home. (Sounds silly imho, but that's just me) Realistically speaking, I've never heard of any S/Os being charged or getting hassled while on their way to/from work, but that doesn't mean it could never happen.
      Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
      Originally posted by ValleyOne
      BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
      Shoulda called in sick.
      Be safe!

      Comment


      • #4
        When both of you say you need company permission, is this written in the law, or is it just so you don't get in trouble with the company? Still can't find any mention of concealed carry on-duty in the Security Guard RCW or the CPL RCW.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
          When both of you say you need company permission, is this written in the law, or is it just so you don't get in trouble with the company? Still can't find any mention of concealed carry on-duty in the Security Guard RCW or the CPL RCW.
          Basically you can only carry weapons authorized by the company. If you are have an armed license and it only endorses a Glock 23 and you end up whacking someone with a snub nose .38, there's going to be some serious issues.

          You have to be qualified to carry each specific weapon. If you qualify on a Taurus .38 Revolver you have to carry a Taurus .38 Revolver. You cant just start carrying a Sig 9mm just because you have an armed license, you'll have to qual on the Sig too.

          I believe if you are carrying a weapon that you are not endorsed for, you are unlawfully carrying the weapon in the performance of your security duties.
          "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
          "The Curve" 1998

          Comment


          • #6
            Sorry, I should have clarified: assume that you are WACJTC certified for the weapon and that it is company-issued or company-leased, you have an armed license, and you have a CPL. Are there any legal restrictions on how you may carry your weapon on-duty in those circumstances?

            Also, I had an armed coworker tell me that WA law requires you to use solid core ammo only. I can't find this in the RCW either, and I'm guessing he was confusing the law with company policy (or regulations from his previous job as a FPS Police Officer)

            I'm not sure where I got the "you can't carry concealed on-duty" from, but I swear I read it somewhere...or maybe the long, lonely hours of working graveyards are finally getting to me

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
              Sorry, I should have clarified: assume that you are WACJTC certified for the weapon and that it is company-issued or company-leased, you have an armed license, and you have a CPL. Are there any legal restrictions on how you may carry your weapon on-duty in those circumstances?

              Also, I had an armed coworker tell me that WA law requires you to use solid core ammo only. I can't find this in the RCW either, and I'm guessing he was confusing the law with company policy (or regulations from his previous job as a FPS Police Officer)

              I'm not sure where I got the "you can't carry concealed on-duty" from, but I swear I read it somewhere...or maybe the long, lonely hours of working graveyards are finally getting to me
              If the gun is issued/leased and you are licensed to carry it, you are ok AFAIK.

              I dont think there are any state restrictions regarding what type of ammo you can carry so long as it's legal ammo (Obviously superduperexplosivetippedheatseekingradarjammingar mordisinegratingicecreammakingpandakilling ammo probably wont be authorized)
              "Alright guys listen up, ya'll have probably heard this before, Jackson vs. Securiplex corporation; I am a private security officer, I have no State or governmental authority. I stand as an ordinary citizen. I have no right to; detain, interrogate or otherwise interfere with your personal property-... basically all that means is I'm a cop."-Officer Ernie
              "The Curve" 1998

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Just_Some_Guy View Post
                Also, I had an armed coworker tell me that WA law requires you to use solid core ammo only. I can't find this in the RCW either, and I'm guessing he was confusing the law with company policy (or regulations from his previous job as a FPS Police Officer)
                Sounds like a dunce...FPS uses JHP's, same as their contract guards.

                Comment


                • #9
                  There is no statute saying that only solid core ammo can be used. That's hogwash.

                  As we said, as long as you have all the necessary certifications, you can carry concealed on duty if your company allows it. It's not so much that it's illegal to break company policy, but it CAN put your job in jeopardy if they find out.

                  And as long as we're on the subject.. BHR:

                  The law does not actually say you HAVE to carry/use the same type of weapon you qualify with. I was under this same impression for a long time. When I re-qualified a few months back my classmates and I got into a long discussion with our instructor on that topic. Turns out that it isn't a legal REQUIREMENT, but rather a CYA thing that all instructors highly recommend. Reason being if you end up going to court for having shot somebody, the lawyers are gonna rip you apart if they find out you're carrying a weapon you didn't train or qualify with. Again, not because it's illegal, but simply because it makes it sound as if you didn't know how to use it properly. So overall it is definately best if you carry what you qualified with, just to CYA.
                  Corbier's Commandos - "Stickin it to the ninjas!"
                  Originally posted by ValleyOne
                  BANG, next thing you know Bob's your Uncle and this Sgt is seemingly out on his a$$.
                  Shoulda called in sick.
                  Be safe!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Washington Law for Armed Security Officers

                    RCW 18.170.050
                    Armed private security guard license authority -- Registration of firearms.
                    (1) An armed private security guard license grants authority to the holder, while in the performance of his or her duties, to carry a firearm with which the holder has met the proficiency requirements established by the commission.

                    (2) All firearms carried by armed private security guards in the performance of their duties must be owned or leased by the employer and, if required by law, must be registered with the proper government agency.


                    [1991 c 334 § 5.]

                    FWIS, the latter portion of subsection (1) would lend creedence to the notion that a specific firearm(s) is indicated. --K.
                    Bitter clinger to my guns and religion....

                    "When I die, I desire no better winding sheet than the Stars and Stripes, and no softer pillow than the Constitution of my country."--Andrew Jackson

                    Psychological Operations: Because physical wounds heal.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Concealed Pistol License.

                      Graphic Version
                      RCW 9.41.050
                      Carrying firearms.

                      (1)(a) Except in the person's place of abode or fixed place of business, a person shall not carry a pistol concealed on his or her person without a license to carry a concealed pistol.

                      (b) Every licensee shall have his or her concealed pistol license in his or her immediate possession at all times that he or she is required by this section to have a concealed pistol license and shall display the same upon demand to any police officer or to any other person when and if required by law to do so. Any violation of this subsection (1)(b) shall be a class 1 civil infraction under chapter 7.80 RCW and shall be punished accordingly pursuant to chapter 7.80 RCW and the infraction rules for courts of limited jurisdiction.

                      (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

                      (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

                      (3)(a) A person at least eighteen years of age who is in possession of an unloaded pistol shall not leave the unloaded pistol in a vehicle unless the unloaded pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.

                      (b) A violation of this subsection is a misdemeanor.

                      (4) Nothing in this section permits the possession of firearms illegal to possess under state or federal law.


                      [2003 c 53 § 28; 1997 c 200 § 1; 1996 c 295 § 4; 1994 sp.s. c 7 § 405; 1982 1st ex.s. c 47 § 3; 1961 c 124 § 4; 1935 c 172 § 5; RRS § 2516-5.]

                      It would appear that one would need both an Armed Security Officer license as well as a valid CPL to carry concealed.... Unless that person falls within a number of exceptions. I'm not too experience on the private armed side and have been exempt all of my adult life as a commissioned LE officer. However, I do know that governmental security officers (such as for school districts), though exempt from licensing and "Gun Free Zones" restrictions still need a CPL to carry concealed as they are not categorically peace officers. --K.
                      Bitter clinger to my guns and religion....

                      "When I die, I desire no better winding sheet than the Stars and Stripes, and no softer pillow than the Constitution of my country."--Andrew Jackson

                      Psychological Operations: Because physical wounds heal.

                      Comment

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